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PB wrote:Both OSes act and feel totally different.

That feel is just because of the total flexibility offered by the OS.

Little things like this ability. If they were different acting, then these commands should not even be recognized by Zorin.

i have applied ts-soft note (big thanks) that on the extended partition, you can create 127 logical drives. so i have reduced one of the small logical partitions from 30 GB to 24 GB using the free easeus partition tool, and partitioning the remainder 6 GB as logical, and now zorin partitioning tool accept it as swap partition. while the free 21.67 GB partitioned as ext4. and "/" as mount point. the whole system installed in 20 minutes on an (average / 2+) desktop pc. the only annoyance is that at the end the livedvd installation freeze if we click on reboot, better to stay on the livedvd and exit, thats info for a casual visitor. the default video and music player are poor and it gives the sound volume as too low. it is may be from the sound driver for "soundMax integrated digital HD Audio" i will search if there is a better driver for it.
thanks PB for this magnificent thread which i am sure many people will be directed to it from google somehow during the passage of time. at least it is a partitioning lesson which i forget from many years ago.

The other way is a swapfile like windows uses, but a swappartion is always better. Here a howto:
http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/linux-add- ... ile-howto/

Is simple, as all is simple with linux

> That feel is just because of the total flexibility offered by the OS

Fair enough, but feeling is all the matters to me.

Also, apps and folders open/close very fast with Zorin compared to
Ubuntu 10 and Linux Mint 16. That's probably due to the bare look
that others have mentioned ("Win 3.1 appearance") but again, for
me, I like that speed. Perhaps Ubuntu can be stripped back a bit
to get the same sort of speed?

Tell you what: I'll download the latest Ubuntu today and give it
another shot. But if it doesn't play all my media files and favorite
Windows games immediately out of the box like Zorin, then I don't
think it'll last on my hard drive.

PB wrote:Tell you what: I'll download the latest Ubuntu today and give it another shot.

To get you to download and try it again was neither my intention or desire.
It's not important as you already have a perfectly good Linux installation running.
Also like I posted before, I think of Zorin as "UBUNTU for dummies".
For those who can't be bothered to configure UBUNTU, or are reluctant to learn a slightly different way of working with a computer,
Zorin's just loadup everything and slap on a Windows like interface approach is perfect.

PB, if you are going to check UBUNTU out, know there's a new LTS version 14.04 coming in a couple of months, and IMO that would be the better one to install and evaluate.
That'd also give you plenty of time to experience Zorin so you can better see what the scant differences are.

I was simply hoping that your enthusiasm for Zorin, combined with facts about the operating system would cause you to realize (and quite possibly even acknowledge)
that your "dis" of UBUNTU in your initial post was quite wrong if the rest of your post was correct, that's all.

ts-soft wrote:The other way is a swapfile like windows uses, but a swappartion is always better. Here a howto:
http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/linux-add- ... ile-howto/

Is simple, as all is simple with linux

Thank's for the link.
I'll be trying that in the future.
Also isn't a 2 GB swap partition more than enough?
I was working under the assumption that allocating any more is a waste of disk space?

> there's a new LTS version 14.04 coming

Too late... I already downloaded 13.10 and burned it.
Will be installing it later tonight to see how it all goes.

When you install, they recommend that you stay connected to the net so the installer can update the system.
That gives you the freshest most up to date experience and keeps the size of the .iso down.
The developer's philosophy and aim until relatively recently was to keep the distribution on a single CD.
Additionaly they expect you to customize the base installation to add any specialized functionality that you desire.
That customization includes WINE.

The only rough edge in the current version installer is that there is a pop up menu which gets created under a larger window.
The hidden window is where you are to explicitly agree to download some Windows components (core fonts if I remember correctly),
and the UBUNTU install halts until you respond to the hidden prompt.
So when it seems that the install progress meter is stuck, you'll have to move the window that you see to expose one that is obscured.

Thanks for the heads-up about the obscured window, and WINE.

[Edit] Okay, so I tried Ubuntu 13.10 last night, and my reaction from
a Windows user looking to defect: still not as good as Zorin.

Here's why:

(1) What's with the "taskbar" being on the left-hand side of the desktop?
Yuck! Humans read side-to-side, so this is just a gigantic eyesore and a
big distraction when reading. So I tried to move it... but no dice. Set it
to autohide unless the mouse goes to the left edge, but it didn't appear
very often. Absolutely horrible. Why not at the bottom like Windows or
Apple? Seems to be different just for the sake of being different.

(2) Further, I can't even lock my own documents or folder to it, like I can
with the Windows taskbar. This is a massive dealbreaker for me, as I want
quick access to specific documents and folders all the time. Zorin does it.

(3) WINE is not included by default (as you said), so I had to install it
manually with the Software Center. That was simple. But then, a lot of the
Windows games I mentioned in the first post wouldn't run in fullscreen mode,
as they kept clashing and flickering with the mega-ugly left-hand side taskbar.
I had to compromise by running them in a window, which made them small.
Zorin plays them all in fullscreen immediately, with no taskbar clashing.

(4) Speaking of WINE, even though installed, I couldn't just double-click the
Windows executables to run them (unlike Zorin). I had to manually edit a
MIME file to include them as a default handler.

(5) The overall size and speed of Ubuntu's desktop. All the text is so large
and ugly, like Windows running at 800x600 resolution. Couldn't find any way
to make the text smaller (for window captions, messages, etc). And it all
seemed a lot slower than Zorin to do everything, due to the eye candy.

(6) Menus of apps always at the TOP OF THE DESKTOP, like a Mac!
Yuck, man. I always hated that with Macs, and Ubuntu has followed it.

(7) RhythmBox kept crashing when trying to play my MP3s, which is no
good. Tried Audacious but it doesn't handle Winamp skins as well as I've
been led to believe. The UI was corrupt with my favorite skins, and its
window size is too damn small to use, with no way of resizing it.

(8) And lastly, just while using Ubuntu in general, I got this a lot:



That was pretty much the final straw. And yes, I applied all updates.
With Zorin, the move from Windows was totally painless and everything
worked immediately. I know you're a big Ubuntu fan, and that's great,
but I'm not convinced that Ubuntu is right for ME.

[Edit] Added one more:

(9) Close/min/max buttons on the left side of windows instead of right.
Sure, the OS has a right to be different to Windows, but still... why piss
off users looking to switch?

Final thought: Some people will obviously tell me to "do this" and "do that"
to fix the problems above... but that's the entire point: I DON'T WANT TO.
That's why Zorin has won me over, because I don't HAVE to start mucking
around with the internals of the OS just to get things working correctly.
Don't lose sight of that, as it's vitally important when converting users.

I would never recommend Ubuntu to anybody.

@PB

(1) That's because practically all of the desktop action is on the left hand side of the screen.
Although for years I had my XP toolbar docked at the right side of my desktop, personally I find it better placed to the left side.
I do consider it a shortcoming, almost a failure, that within Unity it can't be switched around like the Windows taskbar.
I'm guessing that capability will be added to future versions.

(2) My first reaction is "That's what the remainder of the desktop is for."
However I'm thinking that it can probably be done, but it's not something that I have looked for.
Once I learned how to add custom icons for my applications I was satisfied.

(3,4) Seems like Zorin's strong suit all right, the additional configuration is done for you.

(5) It is all customizable through GUIs and it will a learning experience.

(6) OK

(7) Yeah, I don't use it either. If you don't like Audacious, then try VLC, it's available at the usual place.
It does a great job with audiovisuals and it automatically displays associated art if you are internet connected.

(8) Seems like your install experience was not the best.
If this was on a laptop, then automatic driver installation from a Live DVD would have a greater chance of failure.
Desktop hardware is better supported.
Still it seems that your system didn't actually crash, but experienced an internal error.
If so, that is likely some hardware driver conflict in some nonessential system that could be debugged and fixed.
Rough edges like poor performance can happen with certain hardware drivers,
and it can take intervention to make the OS work 100% with a given hardware configuration.
Expertise obviously contained in the Zorin configuraion scripts,
when combined with Zorin's greater library of included hardware drivers obviously made the difference for you.
On different hardware your UBUNTU installation experience would be totally different.
Of course, that would be true for any OS.

Final thoughts:
I am glad that Zorin is out there, and the next time I encounter someone who is looking for a non-Windows OS
I'll suggest it along with UBUNTU.
It always makes sense to use the best tool for the job.

PB, like you, I have tried several distro's of ubuntu and Mint as well as many others over the years (remember lindows?) and never found one I was happy with - just the little things that finally caused me to throw in the towel.

Tried Zorin and I see what you mean. Essentially usable out of the box. It's one I could probably live with.

But, in the end, I have to ask myself - why? (Emphasis on "myself", not someone else). So far, I'm happy with windows and see no compelling reason to change. Again, just my opinion. Please no flame wars. I'm not interested. Thanks for the heads-up on Zorin.

cheers

@PB
I agree with most of your criticisms of the main Ubuntu distro, the ugly sidebar, the detached menus and the window control buttons on the left instead of the right - all very irritating. On top of that Unity feels slow, instead of an application launching instantly you get a throbbing icon on the sidebar for a few moments first.

As for the 'Internal Error' dialogue I think that's Unity as well, I've experienced that on nearly every PC I've tried Ubuntu on but it's something that I've never seen on Ubuntu Studio which uses XFCE instead of Unity.

Your fullscreen games issue? I'll hazard a guess as to what the cause might be - it begins with 'U' and ends with 'nity'. Honestly, I'd bet my used tissue collection on it.

I downloaded the latest Zorin today and used Unetbootin to make a bootable pendrive with it. It is a very nice distro, certainly something I'd imagine an XP refugee could get to grips with very quickly. I think their desktop is a tweaked LXDE, it certainly has a nice brisk feel.

I downloaded Zorin OS w/Internet Explorer 11.. It completed without any difficulties and the hash matches.

Also may not be necessarily true but makes me anyways feel that places like these tries to put fear to Windows users and those who actually like using IE. One more reason to get rid of Microsoft and not look back... how convenient.

> the window control buttons on the left instead of the right

Forgot about that! Added to my post. Little things like that make
the switch from Windows more painful. Again, it's just change for
the sake of being different. They should use what people expect.

> Your fullscreen games issue? I'll hazard a guess as to what the
> cause might be - it begins with 'U' and ends with 'nity'

Definitely, because the fullscreen games were flickering between
the game display and the Unity bar. Like they were both fighting
to be seen. Forget that; Zorin plays nice with fullscreen games.

> I'd bet my used tissue collection on it

That's okay, you can keep them.

> in the end, I have to ask myself - why?

For me, I'm hating the way Windows is going. So much hardware
is needed to run it these days, and Windows 8 is just pig ugly.
Malware like CryptoLocker and keeping my anti-virus updated is
just a constant worry, too. Linux doesn't suffer all that.

I've only stuck with Windows so far because of games and a few
apps that require it (that have no Linux equivalent). But these
days, I'm gaming more with just my iPhone or iPad, so switching
to Linux to avoid the future of Windows seems like a good idea,
especially since I happily discovered that WINE is running the
games that I do like, and some of those specialist apps.

So it's a breath of fresh air, to me, to ditch Windows on a day
to day basis. The only problem? I write apps for Windows.
So I feel the day is coming when I just give up desktop coding,
and write web apps instead. I thank Fred for SpiderBasic!