PureBasic Forums - English

Looks like our request might come true.
"Soon" was the word I liked to add but I am hesitating.....I hope that Fred recognises an urge for a "quick and dirty" helping alpha solution to get Purebasic into the ARM game - before other (non-semicolon) languages are adopted for the arm-gcc.

Cheers
LN

I really can't see nor feel the 'urge' for an arm-linux version. Far from it.
Actually..I hope that the SMALL team's efforts will stay focused on current platforms only.
I am, however, tired of seeing the same people bumping this topic again and again.

@DK_PETER
I am ok, with you not seeing the need for it. However you may also see no need for a Linux version of PB, or the need for a JSON or Mail Library judging from a quick glance at you post history. Other people do need them, and I would have stopped using PB if it were not for a Linux version long ago. (heartbroken of course)
Please accept that there are people with other desires.
Also 26 people participated in this thread. Two of them opposing. Compared with a random current 5 page thread with 16 people participating, we are at least a bit above average here, not below as you suggest.

Now back to being constructive:

langinagel wrote:Maybe let's detail a bit this request:

FASMARM support with the following libraries (taken from the list in help) on arm-linux, console-based pbcompiler:
-Console
-File / Filesystem
-Array / List / Map
-Math
-Date
-Memory
-Process, System and Library
-Debugger

...and also desireable (maybe later):
-Cipher
-Packer
-Database
-Serialport
-Network
-HTTP / FTP / Mail
-Thread
-Xml

Should be enough for the first shot(no GFU[at first], definitively neither Sprite nor 3D).

Agreements, disagreements, change requests, comments - all welcome.

I mostly agree, Network and Serialport however are critical in my point of view.

The advantage of ARM would be to use PB in small form factor devices. Communication is necessary to make them useful.
You can place a device anywhere and access it over Network. Even in the field with a battery and a GSM stick lasting for days.
Or you can attach it via an USB/RS232 to a PC, upload/retrieve data and head out to measure the next values.

Also I would guess these two aren't difficult to support as the platform specific code is small.

To must have I would add:
- String

To desirable I would add:
- Sort
- Image / Imageplugin
- Regular Expressions

And at the very bottom: Sound / Soundplugin

Thank you, macros, for your feedback.

Sorry that I forgot the string lib since I use it quite often.
I was myself also wondering if network should be in an initial package, for a better simplicity I voted against. Convinced now.

So...here is the updated list (just the initial and desireable package):

FASMARM support with the following libraries (taken from the list in help) on arm-linux, console-based pbcompiler:
-Console
-File / Filesystem
-Array / List / Map
-Math
-Date
-Memory
-Process, System and Library
-Debugger
-String
-Serialport
-Network

...and also desireable (maybe later):
-Cipher
-Packer
-Database
-HTTP / FTP / Mail
-Thread
-Xml
- Sort
- Image / Imageplugin
- Regular Expressions

Again:
comments welcome!
Also about my first price indication: too expensive? reasonable?

Greetings
LN

I fully agree with your list now.

As I wrote before, i am willing to donate 150€ for ARM Support.
100€ as price seems a bit harsh however. I was very happy to buy Purebasic myself back in school, 100€ would be even more than the usual license.
I think 50€ would be more appropriate.

I would however prefer if it just joins the other platforms under the usual license, maybe after donations for ARM support have reached a threshold?

@macros

However you may also see no need for a Linux version of PB, or the need for a JSON or Mail Library judging from a quick glance at you post history.

Can't say that I don't see the need for Linux. True..I don't use Linux and Mac, but that's another story.

Used JSON twice at work. Could easily have been avoided.
Mail library...Never needed it...
Serial port...Never...
Console...Never...

also 26 people participated in this thread. Two of them opposing.

(Most users online was 470 on Tue Sep 08 2015)...26 is a minority.

The majority are not active participants.
I am also ok, with you seeing the need for it and I'm sure the team
knows that there are now approx. 26-35 people here, whos interested in the idea.
No need to bump the topic constantly..It doesn't make it more important for the masses.

Lets see what the team conjures up for existing products instead.

Have fun

DK_PETER wrote:I really can't see nor feel the 'urge' for an arm-linux version. Far from it.
Actually..I hope that the SMALL team's efforts will stay focused on current platforms only.
I am, however, tired of seeing the same people bumping this topic again and again.

Wow I strongly disagree. The market for ARM based computers/tablets/internet thingies is ridiculous. And ARM has 64-bit processors. Even Microsoft has posted jobs for ARM64 support. Traditional PC sales were down ~11% last year. Go ARM!

im with DK_PETER on this. As nice as ARM support might be to have, and as amazing a programmer as Fred is, he still lives on the same planet as us with only 24 hours a day! development of PB-ARM would surely come at the expense of Purebasic-Win/Linux/OSX development (how could it not, unless outsourced?), and I bought PB because it's a Win/Linux/OSX desktop compiler, not because some day it might support some mobile OS, and with so many bugs that still need fixing, some several years old and some critical, I'd rather see development time used on fixing what Purebasic is/what I invested my money in, instead of trying to turn it into something different. And, as purely a desktop developer (which is why i bought Purebasic) I have absolutely no need to develop mobile apps, and im sure there are existing solutions for the ~20-30 people in this thread screaming out for ARM support. Thankyou for listening to my 2c, i'll keep quiet now!:)

Keya wrote:im with DK_PETER on this. As nice as ARM support might be to have, and as amazing a programmer as Fred is, he still lives on the same planet as us with only 24 hours a day! development of PB-ARM would surely come at the expense of Purebasic-Win/Linux/OSX development (how could it not, unless outsourced?), and I bought PB because it's a Win/Linux/OSX desktop compiler, not because some day it might support some mobile OS, and with so many bugs that still need fixing, some several years old and some critical, I'd rather see development time used on fixing what Purebasic is/what I invested my money in, instead of trying to turn it into something different. And, as purely a desktop developer (which is why i bought Purebasic) I have absolutely no need to develop mobile apps, and im sure there are existing solutions for the ~20-30 people in this thread screaming out for ARM support. Thankyou for listening to my 2c, i'll keep quiet now!:)

I fully agree with this statement.

Lord wrote:

Keya wrote:im with DK_PETER on this. As nice as ARM support might be to have, and as amazing a programmer as Fred is, he still lives on the same planet as us with only 24 hours a day! development of PB-ARM would surely come at the expense of Purebasic-Win/Linux/OSX development (how could it not, unless outsourced?), and I bought PB because it's a Win/Linux/OSX desktop compiler, not because some day it might support some mobile OS, and with so many bugs that still need fixing, some several years old and some critical, I'd rather see development time used on fixing what Purebasic is/what I invested my money in, instead of trying to turn it into something different. And, as purely a desktop developer (which is why i bought Purebasic) I have absolutely no need to develop mobile apps, and im sure there are existing solutions for the ~20-30 people in this thread screaming out for ARM support. Thankyou for listening to my 2c, i'll keep quiet now!:)

I fully agree with this statement.

I fully agree with this statement too !

Ok, now it's time that I also add something to this thread:

You can increase the number from 26 to 27

I'm a hardware/software developer with main focus on networking and communication.
ARM at first point has nothing todo with a mobile OS.

ARM is nowadays in every router and switch and in every cheap networking device.

We also plan to rebuild a very old hardware from us with a raspberry pi pcb (or odroid or ...)

For example I've written a program in PB called asidd (ASterisk Intrution Detection daemon).
At the moment it runs as a daemon on many Linux PC PBXs.

Asterisk runs also on a raspberry pi which signifacantly reduces the hardware costs.
Now I have to rewrite the PB code in C

So it would be very welcome when PB also can be used on ARM linux.

But I take it as it comes.
Since I'm a programmer I'll always find a way. (independent of the used language)
But some ways are easier than others

Bernd

And now a statement again from the original author of this thread to these opinions:

Lord wrote:
Keya wrote:
im with DK_PETER on this. As nice as ARM support might be to have, and as amazing a programmer as Fred is, he still lives on the same planet as us with only 24 hours a day! development of PB-ARM would surely come at the expense of Purebasic-Win/Linux/OSX development (how could it not, unless outsourced?), and I bought PB because it's a Win/Linux/OSX desktop compiler, not because some day it might support some mobile OS, and with so many bugs that still need fixing, some several years old and some critical, I'd rather see development time used on fixing what Purebasic is/what I invested my money in, instead of trying to turn it into something different. And, as purely a desktop developer (which is why i bought Purebasic) I have absolutely no need to develop mobile apps, and im sure there are existing solutions for the ~20-30 people in this thread screaming out for ARM support. Thankyou for listening to my 2c, i'll keep quiet now!:)

I fully agree with this statement.


I fully agree with this statement too !

It's nice to read about opinions ("me too"), but still the original request should be read and fully understood!

1) We (still "we" as there were a few supporters of my request) ask for ARM-support and still only for a LINUX base. Although most people think tablet and smartphone when they hear "ARM" with such FASMARM solutions there is no (straight!) way to go onto any ANDROID or other such mobile platforms.

2) The target platform was originally Raspberry Pi and can be extended on any ARM-based checkcard computer (Banana Pi, etc.). My approach is to ask for something more embedded, since Purebasic offers simplicity and short footprint without megabytes of executable. This advantage should - from my point of view - also be used in professional embedded solutions.

3) We already discuss a suitable price for this product here, therefore an outsource by Fred for this ARM-solution might be funded by different licences as "original" Purebasic for x86/x64 Windows/PC-Linux/IOS. With this approach Fred might feel free to outsource the work or hire some supporters to not let the "original" Purebasic down. I still work with Purebasic on the noted "original" platforms and would not appreciate a loss of quality for Purebasic on these platforms.

4) One point about majorities and minorities: with about 5000 interested peoples in this thread there might be some more programmers interested in using Purebasic on ARM-based Linux. They still might be a minority compared to the whole number of forum watchers, but so are Linux and iOS users compared to the Windows guys. And still these other platforms are a main argument for me to use Purebasic.

5) This is a thread in a forum, put under the title "Feature requests". As we know from the interviews, Fred (mainly!) decides and Freak and maybe a few others influence where the roadmap about Purebasic is heading. Yes, they have limited resources, but still they do a very good job. Everyone else might ask the big company compiler providers for a similar product and also try to get such a direct contact to the developers of the product - and not through levels of sales, product marketiers, help desks etc. .

@DK_PETER, Lord and Keya (and others) : Thanks for your opinion, but - no offence - you didn't get the point. For each request there is at least a minority of 1 person who thinks it may be of advantage for more. Majority bragging will not get us further.

Greetings
LN

1) We (still "we" as there were a few supporters of my request) ask for ARM-support and still only for a LINUX base. Although most people think tablet and smartphone when they hear "ARM" with such FASMARM solutions there is no (straight!) way to go onto any ANDROID or other such mobile platforms.

1. I know. But you could start here: http://www.red-lang.org/2011/12/arm-sup ... eased.html

2) The target platform was originally Raspberry Pi and can be extended on any ARM-based checkcard computer (Banana Pi, etc.). My approach is to ask for something more embedded, since Purebasic offers simplicity and short footprint without megabytes of executable. This advantage should - from my point of view - also be used in professional embedded solutions.

2. Raspberry Pi and the likes are still minor niche.
https://blog.adafruit.com/2015/09/23/5- ... spberrypi/

3. We already discuss a suitable price for this product here, therefore an outsource by Fred for this ARM-solution might be funded by different licences as "original" Purebasic for x86/x64 Windows/PC-Linux/IOS. With this approach Fred might feel free to outsource the work or hire some supporters to not let the "original" Purebasic down. I still work with Purebasic on the noted "original" platforms and would not appreciate a loss of quality for Purebasic on these platforms.

3. Yeah..you sure did...There's always India.
Wonder how many will accept and pay the price for an Arm-Linux version, when it really comes down to it.

4) One point about majorities and minorities: with about 5000 interested peoples in this thread there might be some more programmers interested in using Purebasic on ARM-based Linux. They still might be a minority compared to the whole number of forum watchers, but so are Linux and iOS users compared to the Windows guys. And still these other platforms are a main argument for me to use Purebasic.

4. Not half as important as number of views as the off topic: http://www.purebasic.fr/english/viewtop ... 17&t=62424
(Which - for me has only a minor importance but is a fun read).
Concerning this topic: Scratch at least 35 views from me.

5) This is a thread in a forum, put under the title "Feature requests". As we know from the interviews, Fred (mainly!) decides and Freak and maybe a few others influence where the roadmap about Purebasic is heading. Yes, they have limited resources, but still they do a very good job. Everyone else might ask the big company compiler providers for a similar product and also try to get such a direct contact to the developers of the product - and not through levels of sales, product marketiers, help desks etc. .

5. If it comes..it comes...But imho an effective small team should concentrate (which they already do) on the products they've already
created and which people rely upon.

@DK_PETER, Lord and Keya (and others) : Thanks for your opinion, but - no offence - you didn't get the point. For each request there is at least a minority of 1 person who thinks it may be of advantage for more. Majority bragging will not get us further.

No offence?...Actually...you seem a bit offended - like I'm stepping on your toes.
If they make it..so be it. I'm just stating that you people keeps on bumping the topic.
Scratch 36 views from this topic instead.

Now....Wish for something else....please...I think they got the message.

Last message from me on this subject..And..sure...keep bumping if you wish to do so.
Now..Have a great day.

Just for the fun of it....

Yes, indeed, I felt a little bit offended.

Thx for the hint with RED, it looks interesting. I wonder what the footprint might be.

If you say Raspberry Pi is a small niche....let's share a secret: so is Purebasic.

Greetings to north of Flensborg
LN

@langinagel

Damn! See? I looked again.

Yes, indeed, I felt a little bit offended.

No need to be - it's a complete waste of energy.
I never get offended myself unless we're talking about direct personal attacks.

If you say Raspberry Pi is a small niche....let's share a secret: so is Purebasic.

Granted..Purebasic IS a VERY, VERY small niche, but people interested in software development is, in general a small niche.
Fred is the only one, who is making a 'full time living' of Fantaisie software - and it doesn't sound like he's swimming in cash.

Now Fred is married (congrats Fred) and naturally, when changes are made to ones daily life - priorities
changes a little bit too each time (kids anyone? ). Priorities simply has to change and will always do so in time.
According to the last interview - one can assume that the team in general has a pretty relaxed
relationship to the development of Fantaisie products, which is fine - no need to get stressed out.
It's theirs (mainly Fred and Timo's 'I think') products and they can do whatever they want.

Read the following in the interview again:
http://www.purearea.net/pb/english/interview_2015.htm

Q&A. 16
Q&A. 21
Q&A. 34 (especially)
Q&A. 36
Q&A. 70

For me, who's generally interested in entertainment (sound, gfx, 2D/3D game = DK_PETER fun) related products -
the interview seems a bit...a'hmm..dim?. Don't get me wrong..I predict that Purebasic will be great
for many years to come, but i can also see that I personally rely heavily on Fred and Comtois.

So even though PureBasic is my main language of choice, due to great syntax and low development time -
I have two other languages lined up to take over, if things gets waaay too 'relaxed'.
Thankfully, I'm a pure hobbyist and truly enjoy to program just for the fun of it.

About Red: Sure, anytime. I'm looking forward to v0.6.x - v0.7.x myself.

Solid greetings to the south of Flensborg.

DK_PETER