The Pirate Bay case

Tipperton · Post by **Tipperton** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:01 pm

SFSxOI · Post by **SFSxOI** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:26 pm

Tipperton wrote:
SFSxOI wrote:"Theft: the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it"

Hmmm...no, that is not an old definition, that is a current definition upon which cannon law (in some places napoleonic code) is founded. It doesn't need to be updated, it fills the need for requiring proof to show that something was taken, it simply need to be adhered to.
So you are saying that if you had a program you'd written and are selling, that it would be perfectly OK for me to download a fully working copy of it and use it without paying you because I only got a copy and you still have your copy so I haven't deprived you of it.

Good, be sure to let me know when you have software to sell, I love free software!

hmmm...no I did not say that. Where did I say that? I simply basically said the definition was not old, and in fact I did say it needed to be adhered to. If it was adhered to the prosecution of such things would be more eaisly adjudicated properly in a more timely fashion instead of spending the time on trying to shoehorn make believe and self interest profit motivated theories into the prosecution of piracy as big content tries to do. In other words, if we prosecuted the cases according to how the law is written instead of trying to re-interpet it each and every case then piracy would be prosecuted properly and swiftly, so in a round about way I was agreeing with you. The emotion is clouding your perception. Not everyone who disagrees with you or has an opposing view is the "evil" person you think they are.

pdwyer · Post by **pdwyer** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:14 pm

We're arguing by dictionary meanings!!

I'm afraid that dictionary.com says theft is an act of stealing and to look up steal has "to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, esp. secretly or by force"

In my case I was an accomplice to theft of the battlestar galactica episode as I recived a copy of it that I knew is not a lawful thing to do, however I didn't make the copy so I didn't do the original taking from the owner. (my sentence would be slightly lower

). "Receiving stolen goods" perhaps

But hang on. This court case didn't charge people like me with anything. It charged the people who index that data along with other data. Or rather, they have service that others put indexes on from stuff they create or steal with a little search engine... like a little version of google.

Tipperton, your holier than thou attitude is going to get my thread locked

Disagree all you like but please tone down on the aggression, its not needed in this debate. It's great you have a different opinion but trying to force others to change theirs with agression isn't going to effect this world or this court case... (unless you have a real gun to point

) Please calm down.

Tipperton · Post by **Tipperton** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:46 pm

Fine, I'll withdraw entirely from this thread.

Just don't complain about how piracy is hurting the industry while at the same time saying the ruling again The Pirate Bay was wrong.

The Pirate Bay indexes torrents of illegally distributed content so they are accessories to the crime of theft and if you don't think that people who help or asist others to commit crimes shouldn't be punished, that's your choice.

Bye...

pdwyer · Post by **pdwyer** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:56 pm

You're gonna sulk because of that last post of mine?

admittedly I don't know how old you are...

We're having a debate, or so I hoped, I was happy you had a differing opinion and said as much you were just a little quick to jump up and make personal comments about people being garbage etc and I wanted you to calm down.

Can you not participate in a conversation where people are not of a like mind and have to run away? Thats dissapointing.

I didn't single you out because you dissagreed, I singled you out since you were the most antagonistic about it. I would prefer you didn't run off

Tipperton · Post by **Tipperton** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:08 pm

I'm not sulking.

Since my comments were not wanted, I removed them.

Simple as that.

Mistrel · Post by **Mistrel** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:09 pm

Tipperton wrote:The Pirate Bay indexes torrents of illegally distributed content so they are accessories to the crime of theft and if you don't think that people who help or asist others to commit crimes shouldn't be punished, that's your choice.

So does Google. So does Microsoft. So does Yahoo. So does YouTube. So does Facebook. So does MySpace. So does *gasp* RapidShare! Are all of these companies accessory to "making available"? I just can't agree with your perspective.

utopiomania · Post by **utopiomania** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:40 pm

@pdwyer, what has the quality of avi files has to do with bad quality cassette tape recordings?

@Mistrel, this question was adressed in this trial, and pirate bay is something totally different.

Let me ask you a question. Is ok to you if I distribute my PB copy freely on sites like this?

Tipperton · Post by **Tipperton** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:54 pm

Mistrel wrote:So does Google. So does Microsoft. So does Yahoo. So does YouTube. So does Facebook. So does MySpace. So does *gasp* RapidShare! Are all of these companies accessory to "making available"? I just can't agree with your perspective.

They are all part of the problem then. They make it too easy for people to find illegally distributed content so they download it and thus steal it.

Because it's so wide spread, should we just give up and let the pirates have their way?

the.weavster · Post by **the.weavster** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:03 pm

"every time the music industry kills an underground distribution channel, a more efficient one arises in its place. Goodbye mixtapes, hello www. Bye www, hello Napster. Bye Napster, hi BitTorrent. Bye BitTorrent, hi anonymous, ciphered, totally decentralized p2p nets.

Why? By limiting the supply of interaction, the music industry is only ensuring that each interaction becomes more and more efficient. The endgame is a distribution system where every song in the world in the world can be zapped invisibly and anonymously from me to you in a nanosecond.

The point? 21st century economics are radically decentralized. Wars against networks are unwinnable — when orthodox organizations are the ones fighting them. Only networks (or markets and communities, if you're a long-time reader) can fight other networks.

Want a better music/media/etc. "business model"? The understanding that hierarchies are dominated by networks is the key — and the failure to understand it is exactly why the media industry is so deeply in decay."

- Umair Haque
http://blogs.harvardbusiness.org/haque/

Fluid Byte · Post by **Fluid Byte** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:04 pm

Tipperton wrote:I'm not sulking.

Since my comments were not wanted, I removed them.

Simple as that.

Ah crap ..., not another Dr. Wildrik ...

Mistrel · Post by **Mistrel** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:05 pm

Tipperton wrote:Because it's so wide spread, should we just give up and let the pirates have their way?

Can you be a little more specific of what you're suggesting as an alternative? Should torrents be illegal because some people use them for illegal activities? Maybe we shouldn't have search engines either so no one will be able to find these questionable websites.

pdwyer · Post by **pdwyer** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:40 am

utopiomania wrote:@pdwyer, what has the quality of avi files has to do with bad quality cassette tape recordings?

Possibly not mentioned in this court case but often on this topic we hear that new invasive technologies like HDCP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-bandw ... Protection which IS stopping me watching purchased BD's on a Purchased BD Player in my PC due to my lack of monitor support is necessary because I could copy something that is close to pixel perfect with the original. However, I'm allowed to watch it if I unplug my digital monitor or TV and swap it with an analog one as it's lower quality.

This is the industry's direction rather than mine.

Due to the size of the downloading being done, often stolen content is compressed into lower quality files to make them smaller.

It seems inconsistant to me to have no issue with the poor quality tape dubbing and to introduce technologies that specifically allow analog ripping by design and then clamp down on the indexing of poor quality compressed movie sharing.

utopiomania wrote:Let me ask you a question. Is ok to you if I distribute my PB copy freely on sites like this?

No, I don't. It may sound hypercritical to some but I don't agree with theft or piracy. As mentioned earlier I have a monthly plan to rent all my movied and I pay another plan for satillite movies. However, when the system gets out of hand in my opinion (to watch a missed episode of BSG I need to wait 9 months, buy a whole season of DVDs, rip them with DVD decrypter anyway as they would be Region 1 from amazon.com then write them back to a blank DVD to watch them on my TV or just watch the ripped DVD on my PC...) I feel a little civil disopedience is in order to just grab the fracking thing that is sitting in front of me now.

Make it easy for me to be a customer and I will be one. Make it too hard and I probably won't bother. I won't spend extra time and effort just to spend money, there has to be a value add.

case · Post by **case** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:59 am

piracy is all about greed, lazyness and availability.

it not only apply to the user that get pirated content, it's also because of the companys.

user is greedy and wan't to pay the less for the thing
company is greedy and want to makes user pay a lot the thing

this can be reduced a lot by making content available for a real low cost, a monthly fee for exemple.

people don't bother paying 10$ a month to access all the content, and 10$ a month multiplied by the internet user is realy a lot of money for the greedy company, money that they will never get with a classic business model .

lazyness of the user that don't wan't to search on 10 stores to find something he wan't , it's on the P2P anyway so why look another place?

lazyness of the companys that don't mind making available old content because they don't sell anymore

availablility, all is available on theP2P, legal paltforms lacks a lot of titles

it's my point of view about piracy. i'm not myself a pirat, i buy my software, but i'm for freedom and so i'm actively boycotting companys that sue users and lobys laws to fight piracy instead of thinking on a new distribution sheme.

internet may kill these companys, like video killed the radio stars like sound killed the guy playing music in the cinema , like printing killed the priest that copying the holy bible by hand.

things have to evolve, it's like that plain and simple from the start of the ages, or we still be all dinosaurs.

also i'm working in a shop, we must stop to sell things on internet as people can buy at home without coming buy at our shop, and that may kill my job in the end, it's not fair !

Tipperton · Post by **Tipperton** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 2:07 pm

case wrote:this can be reduced a lot by making content available for a real low cost, a monthly fee for exemple.

For music, Zune Pass at $15 a month is great. It gives you unrestricted access to their entire music library to enjoy as much as you want. Download all the songs you want to your Zune player. Plus, each month, you can convert ten songs to your permanent library so they are no longer dependent on the Zune Pass subscription to be playable. I love it.

For movies, NetFlix, I have no desire to own movies except for a very few which I already have, so for me renting and streaming is all I need.