Science vs Faith

Kaeru Gaman · Post by **Kaeru Gaman** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:53 pm

@ricardo
exactly that is what I meant.

Kale & Co. were insulting people for having a belief.
I wanted to point out that they are not grounding on facts, but on belief aswell.

besides the fact that they have no right to insult people for anything,
I wanted to point out clearly that they have no base to do so.

...and I already said a lot of posts ago that this is a programmers' forum.

ricardo · Post by **ricardo** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:54 pm

I recommend Jacques Monod book named "Chance and Necessity: An Essay on the Natural Philosophy of Modern Biology". Its VERY interesting.

Also Steven Weinberg's books.

BUT even if they are right (at this moment is impossible to say it for truth), this dont give anybody the right to insult the believes of anybody.

ricardo · Post by **ricardo** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:02 pm

@Kaeru Gaman

Im agree with you.

But i think i undertsand too that many people feels angry, not with believers, but with some churchs and religion leaders.
I feel angry often with them too because we see many injustice and business around some people speaking in the name of God.

I think that all this mixes in a discussion and take it very hot feeling around.

Per example, i can't comment my feelings about the Pope because im affraid to hurt somebodies feelings...

This is a complicated discussion. Maybe its time to skip it

utopiomania · Post by **utopiomania** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:40 pm

I think techjunkie's powerpoint presentation sums it up quite nicely for me, thanks!

And that Richard Dawkins video was great. I watched the Q&A section, and really
enjoyed his proper English, his boring looks, and the relaxed and polite way he cut
their heads off. Excellent link.

Kale · Post by **Kale** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:54 pm

utopiomania wrote:I think techjunkie's powerpoint presentation sums it up quite nicely for me, thanks!

And that Richard Dawkins video was great. I watched the Q&A section, and really
enjoyed his proper English, his boring looks, and the relaxed and polite way he cut
their heads off. Excellent link.

Another one:
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doc ... 7221820689

This is part 1, see if you can find part 2, it's around somewhere but i can't lay my fingers on it.

Kale · Post by **Kale** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 12:52 am

Part 2:
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doc ... 8032579777

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:47 pm

I believe in God, there is so much evidence out there.
And that's what I have to say to you guys.

thefool · Post by **thefool** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:49 pm

Matt wrote:I believe in God, there is so much evidence out there.

The evicence just goes the wrong way

Kaeru Gaman · Post by **Kaeru Gaman** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:21 pm

thefool wrote:
Matt wrote:I believe in God, there is so much evidence out there.
The evicence just goes the wrong way

who claims?

Observer [1] states: "I believe in [A], there is evidence."
Observer [2] states: "I believe in , there is evidence."
Observer [3] wants to decide.
even if [A] NOT , as long all elements [1], [2], [3], [A] and are contained within the same vectorspace, noone can decide.

this is not only true for "wich moves and wich stand still", but for any concept.

sorry, you may state "I don't believe in [A]", but you have no base to claim to know right or wrong.

thefool · Post by **thefool** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:25 pm

Kaeru Gaman wrote: sorry, you may state "I don't believe in [A]", but you have no base to claim to know right or wrong.

But you and he does, because you believe?
:roll:

Kaeru Gaman · Post by **Kaeru Gaman** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:35 pm

nope.

He said "I believe in [A], there is evidence.", it's his right to do so.
you say "I believe in , there is evidence.", it's your right.

I am [3], and I know that I have no base to decide.

techjunkie · Post by **techjunkie** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:18 pm

Kale wrote:
Kaeru Gaman wrote:science is your faith.
I have faith that science will destroy faith.

techjunkie · Post by **techjunkie** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:19 pm

utopiomania wrote:I think techjunkie's powerpoint presentation sums it up quite nicely for me, thanks!

Not mine, but thanks...

Intrigued · Post by **Intrigued** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:31 am

techjunkie wrote:This is a good one...

lmao!

Nice one (find?) techjunkie.

*still chuckling*

*clap clap clap*

For me? Lets take a look at the "players" in the play. We have a god, satan, angels, demons, 3 spirits, prayer, and on and on.

Problem...

Not one have been proven or have proof they did or do exist/work.

So, it's "if it sounds to good to be true... it probably is".

Also, can any of the following be proven to be from a god directly or indirectly the Bible, Toran, or even Torah(s)? No? Well, that blows the "proof" for each of those religions clean outta the water. So, it would seem there is not much of an argument.

I'm amazed that more folks (currently only 1 out of 6 in the world) are not atheists or at the very least agnostic. Most of us on this planet have enough common sense to see through god belief systems.

Just amazing to me.

ps. I have lived in a Christian home (several denominations), Jewish home (almost had a Barmitzva), and now I use common sense (or try to) and logical thinking to live my life (which has resulted in my credit, financial standing, love-life, living quarters, college grades, career and more getting better, aka. finding new levels of success. All without the use of or dabbling in... religion/god belief. I actually have a LOT less stress since putting such belief systems down several years ago.

But what about when we die? Not that I want to anytime soon. But I am confident that I will finally get to R.I.P.

That's my take on the whole situation, FWIW.

Intrigued · Post by **Intrigued** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:50 am

Derek wrote:Science has to be proved, but faith just IS.

Doesn't it just drive you mad!!

Well, my take (uh oh, here I go again) on this one is...

Faith is one thing.. I have faith my wife will take care of me if I get sick (she does) or am say wheelchair bound.

Blind Faith is dangerous and what I see god/religion belief/practices as belonging too.

Using Blind Faith, example, that's dangerous:

You and a guy are pinned behind a log in a fire-fight "in country". Your pal is a Christian (or some religion) and believes he is going to heaven.. so standing up and just going crazy firing with BLIND FAITH as his guide (aka. belief in god that he will take care of him (and you! great, he just thrust is god on you!)) is a DANGEROUS way to go, for him and for you. As you loose your pal that if using Common Sense and hung in there... teaming with you.. you both might make it out alive, least with twice as good odds and life is all about odds, luck (many variables landing a certain way, sometimes you can influence greatly and sometimes not).

I vote for taking the Common Sense approach. See, I know I have one go'round and want to make it a good one.

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Science vs Faith

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