PureBasic Forums - English

Posted: **Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:17 pm**

Karbon, You must define who is the bad people.

Religions are arcaic pre-infantilism. And are one of the roots of bads.

Inner and J.Baker (and those who are superstitious instead humild researchers and artists):
Hurry up to go away before disaster happens

Posted: **Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:57 pm**

Karbon wrote:Ahh.. Those quotes are so nice, I'm tearing up over here.... Should we start a camp fire, hold hands and sing, and hope all the bad people in the world go away?

C'mon. You all give naive new meaning

You are the one that is acting naive here. To you all is black and white and the grey shades in your very own country can't or won't you see. People like you and Inner are full of prejudices against other cultures and you wonder when those are snapping back? Very poor and sad.

Inner, do you really think what you've said? Do you really think that all muslims are like that? In germany we have lots of muslims and I can't say that they all run around with sabers, bomb belts and foamy mouths. Well, their culture is different and they don't integrate well in the western civilisation but that doesn't make them bad people. Many of them are searching the dialog between the religions and many of them are very open to the ideas and concepts of other religions too.

This "first shoot then ask the questions"-mentality you two show is disgusting.
Remember that not long ago another man stoked the hidden fears and prejudices against a people called jews. Stop this preaching in the name of god, that's hypocracy.

BTW.: In Europe we have a long "tradition" of terrorism (RAF, IRA, ETA ...) and we are/were not acting like a mad crowd in pursuit of revenge.

Posted: **Thu Nov 04, 2004 3:10 pm**

I'm wary of anyone who is convinced that they are right. Sure we need strong leaders, but never realising you're wrong isnt a sign of strength its incompetant and ultimately it costs lives. Bush and Blair (I'm from the UK) both show a level of self-conviction and lack of judgement that they are (IMO) dangerous. As a citizen, I trust my leaders to be better informed, have clearer judgement, be altruistic in all matters. They should be better, wiser people then me.

What happened with 911 was awful - noone can disagree with that. It was particularly painful for US citizens because they have no living memory of *war* on home soil.
Did Bin-Laden orchestrate 911? I doubt it. He didnt need to. He probably funded it though (he comes from a long line of Oil money)

It is a common ploy for leaders to gain popular support by forcing a war. Hitler did it very successfully across Europe. Galtieri did it with the Falklands as Argentina was facing economic crisis. Margaret Thatcher did it when she responded at the height of her unpopularity and just before a re-election.
Bush did not win the previous election, he lost it! His lawyers won it for him (a sad day for democracy). 911 required a strong response from the USA, the USA could not fin Bin-Laden and Bush needed a war to gain popular support....
Lets be clear too that Bush is driven by economic 1st and whats right 2nd. Enron only happened because Bush relaxed regulation as a reward to major investors in his previous campaign.

Its true that Saddam Hussein had limited WoMD (chemical & biological) he used them against the Kurds. Did he still have them when the coalition invaded? I dont know. But the evidence (of WoMD) that was presented to the world was invented, distorted & exaggerated. If there were WoMD they had either long been used / disposed of or moved to an adjacent country. We now know that entire factories & 100s of tons of explosives have disappeared under the noses of the US Army. Both Iran & Iraq have pursued obtaining Nuclear materials though (there is clear evidence)

If Al Qaeda had a Nuclear bomb, they would have used it 911, no doubt!
But since Iraq & the hunt for Bin-Laden, I bet anyone with a spare Nuke knows exactly who's in the market for such a device.

"In 1996, the Russian General, Alexander Lebed, first raised the possibility that a number of small portable Russian nuclear bombs, dubbed 'suitcase bombs', were missing, unaccounted for. Although General Lebed and the government in Moscow subsequently retracted the claim, the case of the missing nuclear suitcase bombs has never really been closed."

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/bbing/st ... 489516.htm

The American people did not go to war in Iraq for Oil, but I think Bush did and Blair followed him & the British people were nervous of the reasons but (mostly) trusted our leader.

The point is that Saddam Hussein deserved to be deposed, but the reasons given (WoMD) were untrue. If countries as powerful as the USA and the UK ever go to war with another, then the reasons for doing so must be flawless & highly-principaled and be with the consent of the population - we must all take responsibility. Doing the right thing for the wrong reasons is not right.

I work in the USA regularly - so please dont mistake my anti-Bush stance as being Anti-American, I'm also anti-Blair but I'm not anti-British

The Bush family & close associates finances are intricately tied to energy (Enron & Oil). If anyone knows that the USA's economy is about to collapse due to an impending oil crisis, then it is certainly somone who is as powerful as Bush with his connections & investments.

"At our (USA) current rate of consumption, we will exhaust US oil reserves in ten years, and the world supply is estimated to last just 43 years at current rates of production and consumption. Mr. Pal (2002) charts our situation in comparison to Iraq; we will run out in 10.5 years whereas Iraq's reserves will last 128.9 years (stats come from oil industry figures, BP)"

http://www.zianet.com/boje/1/pages/oil_wars.htm

The USA which has only 4% of world population generates 25% of overall pollution, 36.1% of Greenhouse gasses (in 1990).

"This is the American position because it's right for America ... We will not do anything that harms our economy, because first things first are the people who live in America" GW Bush

http://www.vexen.co.uk/USA/pollution.html

So, how do you fight terrorists? In my view not with guns (although the short term realities require we protect ourselves). The underdog will always fight hardest. People need a good standard of living and a reason to want to maintain it. Once everyone is fat, lazy & complacent as we are in the West, there will be no more terrorists because there will be no more causes for people to throw their lives away for...

http://www.vexen.co.uk/USA/pollution.html

Posted: **Thu Nov 04, 2004 3:26 pm**

GedB wrote:Rings,
Free tits are already distributed to 50% of the population.
It hardly seems fair, since this is the half of the population who don't really appreicate them. And they get two each!

okay, you won.
but its fair enough that i have a wish and the rights to knead tits .

Karbon wrote: Should we start a camp fire, hold hands and sing, and hope all the bad people in the world go away?

we should decorate the white-house as a swinger-club and start a 4year-long party with enough cold beer .

btw, all these disscusion here is totaly boring.

Posted: **Thu Nov 04, 2004 3:48 pm**

Rings wrote:btw, all these disscusion here is totaly boring.

You're right, politics is boring, voting is boring, human rights are boring, your very own rights are boring and so on. So why care?

Why don't we all just join this group here instead: http://www.vhemt.org/

it would spare us a lot of time, natural resources and incapable leaders.

Posted: **Thu Nov 04, 2004 3:54 pm**

Dare2,

Talking about Christianities Jewish roots:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/programmes/misc/fcd.shtml

Posted: **Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:19 pm**

freedimension wrote:
Rings wrote:btw, all these disscusion here is totaly boring.
You're right, politics is boring, voting is boring, human rights are boring, your very own rights are boring and so on. So why care?

Why don't we all just join this group here instead: http://www.vhemt.org/

it would spare us a lot of time, natural resources and incapable leaders.

[german]
du musst schon genau lesen was ich da geschrieben habe. Diese Diskussion hier ist sinnlos, weil einige Leute Vorstellungen und Weltanschauungen haben wie vor 100 Jahren.Denen kannst du das alles hundertmal erzÃ¤hlen, bringt nix.
Der ach so demokratische Staat ist total korrupt, liberale Anschauungen weichen dÃ¼mmlischsten vor-urteilen (oft auch noch durch Religion bedingt).
Ach,
ignoranz und Ã¼berheblichkeit straft man mit verarsche.
obwohl, iss eigentlich auch sinnlos, die werden schon genug verarscht von ihren oberen Deppen. In diesem Sinne, f*cken fÃ¼r den Frieden

[/german]
have fun while translating

F*ck Religion at: http://www.terrorgruppe.com/church/e_start.html

Posted: **Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:20 pm**

Yes, I believe you. The majority of the soldiers that are in Iraq are trying to help the Iraqi people (at least that's the reason they are given). And only the minority(?) is torturing and hating the iraqi people, driven into that same blind hatred that drives the terrorists on the other side.
And what for? For stability? Compare the situation in the region now and before 2003 and then we can talk again. Bushs "holy" war on terrorism and the war on iraq (two different things that are too often confused [intentional!?]) have led the region into a state of total chaos and uncertainty. Bin Laden doesn't need to recruit his fighters anymore, this war does this already for him - more than perfectly. Well done! This politics really deserves standing ovations and a reelection. Wooohooo, get the popcorn and a bud.

Well, now let's talk about the cash. Do you really think, the war is fought for human rights? Do you really think that? Well, you're right in that the american people is paying a high price for this war, but the people that are behind all this don't even CARE about the american people nor about the iraqi or any other people on this planet but only about their own sake, their own profit. What do you think is all the money flowing to? To the iraqis? Who at the moment is gaining the most money with the iraq war? I can tell you, it's the weapons industry (and hey, bush knows some of them quite well, even before he became president), the oil industry (and hey, bush knows some of them quite well, even before he became president, better, he was one) and the construction industry (not to mention that the Bin Ladens in Saudi Arabia have a large construction company and that the Bush family knows them and others quite well).
This all appears to be a mere saleout of arms to freshen up the stocks with nice side effects in the briefcases of the mightiest in the US.

While all this is happening the gap between rich and poor in the US is getting wider and wider every day. Already 1% of the population owns 90% of the $ (I hope I remember the figures right, will check it later). What about the rest you ask? They are nothing but workbees and antssoldiers, willing to submissively act their role in this worldwide tragedy.

The bush administration hollowed out the americans very own constitution, this highly regarded peace of paper that once stood for things like human rights (well, at least for WASPs) and called this hollowing patriot act. As if this could serve in the fight of terrorism - the only thing it is good for is to supress and control the american people even more, and guess what, it works. As you quite well pointed out in a previous post I'm from germany, and I'm very, very glad it came as it came in 45, believe me. We had our lesson regarding patriotism and nationalism and when I read about all the things that the bush administration is doing I hear more than one alarm bell ringing inside my head. Be cautious with that guy before it's too late. At present Bush is far more dangerous in what he is doing than any other leader in the world, mark my words. And now, in the second term he can do even worse because he doesn't have to worry about his reelection.

BTW: Ever read the Wolfowitz papers where he is stating that the US has to be able to fight in "multiple theatres of war" to maintain the leading role in the world and that this has to be tested out before long? I'm not sure, but I think it too made some allusions as to the axis of evil, mostly iraq and that it would perhaps be necessary to counteract the UNO to fullfill that task. FYI, that paper existed long before 9/11.

I already said it but it can't be said too often: you can't enforce democracy with arms, it failed in vietnam, korea, cambodscha etc. and it will fail in the middle east too. You can't fight terrorism, terrorism is a phantom, a mere symptom of more evil roots. The only way to get rid of terrorism would be to get rid of the causes, a good start to do so would be a just and unbiased politics in the middle east and a much higher budget on foreign aid than at the moment. Selling heavy arms, tanks and helicopters to israel and the lighter weapons to palestina really doesn't count.
But as I also said above, the actual government never intended to save the world and to export democracy, that's too unprofitable in short terms. They are quite happy with the status quo, this way their own people can be better controlled and they can be diverted from all the things that went wrong in their own country, like for example the catastrophical deficit the US has since Bush won the oval office in 2k. TERROR TERROR TERROR the american people is so full of fear (of what excactly?), that they perceive the world in a very distorted way. The american history is full of failures, take the McCarthy Era, the native american issue, slavery and segregation, the cold war, I can't understand why they won't ever learn. Do the world and your children a favor: Get real!

EDIT: Figures about the wealth gap in the USA: http://www.inequality.org/facts.html

/Agree. The damage that bush has done is emense yet ordinary US people can't see it. very strange! 8O

Posted: **Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:32 pm**

As a staunch atheist i regard myself above religious people. I just thought i'd drop that little nugget in there as i really think people who live their lives according to dead/imaginary gods and thousand year old texts are quite simply insecure and stupid! Saying that though i never would want to change what other people think. I just think there very silly, i pity them for not being truely free.

P.S. If Rings ever runs for president or prime minister with his tits & beer campain, i'm moving to that country and/or voting for him!!!!

Posted: **Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:18 pm**

Kale wrote:If Rings ever runs for president or prime minister with his tits & beer campain, i'm moving to that country and/or voting for him!!!!

How about Kenya:

[german]
Kenia
Der stellvertretende kenianische PrÃ¤sident Moody Awori nannte den Sieg Bushs "traurig": Die Diktatur der USA in der Welt werde sich nun verschÃ¤rfen.
[/german]
[translation]
Kenya the deputy Kenyan president Moody Awori called the victory Bushs "sad": The dictatorship of the USA over the world will now be intensified.
[/translation]
At least one who has the guts to say what he thinks.

@Rings: Man, du glaubst nicht wie beruhigt ich bin dass du das aufgeklÃ¤rt hast

BTW: with this

Remember that not long ago another man stoked the hidden fears and prejudices against a people called jews.

I meant that: http://kontraband.com/show/show.asp?ID= ... vies&NSFW=

Posted: **Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:42 pm**

Dare2 wrote:PS:
Remember that early Christians were the persecuted, not the persecutors. Remember that the meek shall inherit the earth.

Can we be sure that the established, dogmatic organised religions of today not also the Pharisees of the modern age? All shining outside and filled with filth inside?

Ahh, finally somebody that got it

Mamma says:

It's easy to fight for your principles.
But it's hard to live by them...

Posted: **Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:47 pm**

Rings wrote:[german]
du musst schon genau lesen was ich da geschrieben habe. Diese Diskussion hier ist sinnlos, weil einige Leute Vorstellungen und Weltanschauungen haben wie vor 100 Jahren.Denen kannst du das alles hundertmal erzÃ¤hlen, bringt nix.
Der ach so demokratische Staat ist total korrupt, liberale Anschauungen weichen dÃ¼mmlischsten vor-urteilen (oft auch noch durch Religion bedingt).
Ach,
ignoranz und Ã¼berheblichkeit straft man mit verarsche.
obwohl, iss eigentlich auch sinnlos, die werden schon genug verarscht von ihren oberen Deppen. In diesem Sinne, f*cken fÃ¼r den Frieden
[/german]
have fun while translating

Babel Fish Translation:

you must already exactly read which I wrote there. This discussion is senseless here, because some people have conceptions and world views as before 100 which can you all this a hundred times tell, brings nix. Oh the so democratic state is totally corrupt, liberal opinions yields duemmlischsten prejudices (often also still by religion causes). Oh, ignoranz and presumption one punishes with verarsche. although, eats actually also senselessly, those becomes already enough verarscht from its upper Deppen. In this sense, f*cken for the peace

It was almost fun...

Posted: **Thu Nov 04, 2004 6:18 pm**

"Who's the idiot who started this thread ?"

* slips back into the angry crowd ... blends in *

Posted: **Thu Nov 04, 2004 7:24 pm**

Hey guys ! PLEASE STOP !!
Main reason to invade Iraq was because his leader (Saddam) is a lying person, and because it possesses Weapons of Mass Destruction; isn't it ?.
Well what's a coincidence !.
G. Bush isn't too much honest, he LIES to american people, and yes! he have nuclear, chemical, and every weapon of mass destruction you can imagine...and remember...Hiroshima...Nagasaki...<put here the next>

Posted: **Thu Nov 04, 2004 9:06 pm**

Kale wrote:As a staunch atheist i regard myself above religious people.

A recent survey revealed only 46% of English people believe in god.
I find myself in the majority for a change.

freedimension wrote:
Kale wrote:If Rings ever runs for president or prime minister with his tits & beer campain, i'm moving to that country and/or voting for him!!!!
How about Kenya:

I used to live in Kenya, the beer was ok but a gentleman couldn't possibly comment about the tits...

PureBasic Forums - English

Looks like Bush won ...