Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Fangbeast.
grasy, smartass comments don't change the fact that some people don't have lots of money. I have met many people on both the you and old side of the spectrum who have exactly what I suggested and CANNOT afford any better. Deal with it.
We are Dyslexic of Borg, prepare to have your ass laminated!
A Blitz Basic programmer
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Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Paul.
As a software developer you can look at things this way...
Lets say there are 100 customers.
50 have new, state of the art computers
50 have old junkers (by todays standards)
Also, lets say there are 5 software companies.
4 only write big bloated apps geared towards new systems.
1 writes small compact apps that will run on both new and old.
Now to make the math simple we will divide the pot evenly...
Developer 1 can sell to 10 of the 50 new computer owners,
Developer 2 can sell to 10 of the 50 new computer owners,
Developer 3 can sell to 10 of the 50 new computer owners,
Developer 4 can sell to 10 of the 50 new computer owners,
Developer 5 can sell to 10 of the 50 new computer owners... PLUS the 50 that no one else will support.
I don't know about anyone else but I know that I personally as a software developer would rather get 60 customers than only 10 !!
(not to mention how much more cost effective it is to distribute a 50kb app over the net as opposed to a 500kb app. Paying for unnecessary bandwith is certainly a waste of profit)
Something to think about eh?
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Visit the PB Resources Site at http://www.reelmediaproductions.com/pb
As a software developer you can look at things this way...
Lets say there are 100 customers.
50 have new, state of the art computers
50 have old junkers (by todays standards)
Also, lets say there are 5 software companies.
4 only write big bloated apps geared towards new systems.
1 writes small compact apps that will run on both new and old.
Now to make the math simple we will divide the pot evenly...
Developer 1 can sell to 10 of the 50 new computer owners,
Developer 2 can sell to 10 of the 50 new computer owners,
Developer 3 can sell to 10 of the 50 new computer owners,
Developer 4 can sell to 10 of the 50 new computer owners,
Developer 5 can sell to 10 of the 50 new computer owners... PLUS the 50 that no one else will support.
I don't know about anyone else but I know that I personally as a software developer would rather get 60 customers than only 10 !!
(not to mention how much more cost effective it is to distribute a 50kb app over the net as opposed to a 500kb app. Paying for unnecessary bandwith is certainly a waste of profit)
Something to think about eh?
----------
Visit the PB Resources Site at http://www.reelmediaproductions.com/pb
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Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by ricardo.
Maybe the first reason that many of them move to Power Basic is because the size (and no runtimes which is sinonimus to small size), the second reason is the speed.
@Paul:
Yes, but i think that the bigger market on coders stuff are Visual Basic coders looking for something else.
For every 100,00 times the keyword "Visual Basic" is typed on some search engine only one time is typed any other compiler. Look how many VB pages (forums, tips, code, etc) are outthere...
Which market are then more interesant as a business?
One more point:
How many compiler are capable on attracting VB coders?
Not many:
PowerBasic, RapidQ, BCX... PureBasic
The ONLY competitor is Power Basic, the other ones dont give real battle to PureBasic.
For me its obvious that if Pure Basic will be some day in Major Leagues must be as a competitor of VB, Power Basic, etc.
Blitz is not major league.
Im just thinking as a business man, dont misunderstood what i say, i respect blitz and every compiler and coder and understand that everyb ody has a different point of view. Im just talking about business...
Its only my point of view.
Best Regards
Ricardo
Dont cry for me Argentina...
ALL that uses VB (something like 2'000,000 of coders!).who really choose a language depended on the filesize of the executeables (expect virus-coders)?!
Maybe the first reason that many of them move to Power Basic is because the size (and no runtimes which is sinonimus to small size), the second reason is the speed.
@Paul:
Yes, but i think that the bigger market on coders stuff are Visual Basic coders looking for something else.
For every 100,00 times the keyword "Visual Basic" is typed on some search engine only one time is typed any other compiler. Look how many VB pages (forums, tips, code, etc) are outthere...
Which market are then more interesant as a business?
One more point:
How many compiler are capable on attracting VB coders?
Not many:
PowerBasic, RapidQ, BCX... PureBasic
The ONLY competitor is Power Basic, the other ones dont give real battle to PureBasic.
For me its obvious that if Pure Basic will be some day in Major Leagues must be as a competitor of VB, Power Basic, etc.
Blitz is not major league.
Im just thinking as a business man, dont misunderstood what i say, i respect blitz and every compiler and coder and understand that everyb ody has a different point of view. Im just talking about business...
Its only my point of view.
Best Regards
Ricardo
Dont cry for me Argentina...
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Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by David.
>> Can PB support MOD musics ? I don't think so (correct me if im
>> wrong ! im new to PB)
>You are wrong: it can.
Hum, and soon it will support PNG images as well (read that in the IRC).. well.. COOL ! =D
Too bad i already started my next 2D project in Blitz. Anyway, i may port it in the future. I have a lot to learn about PB before that.
Would be really cool if my games could run in Linux also =D
You can see some screen shots of what im doing here : http://infomaniacos.org/obe/ss/02-03/
Cya.
>> Can PB support MOD musics ? I don't think so (correct me if im
>> wrong ! im new to PB)
>You are wrong: it can.
Hum, and soon it will support PNG images as well (read that in the IRC).. well.. COOL ! =D
Too bad i already started my next 2D project in Blitz. Anyway, i may port it in the future. I have a lot to learn about PB before that.
Would be really cool if my games could run in Linux also =D
You can see some screen shots of what im doing here : http://infomaniacos.org/obe/ss/02-03/
Cya.
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Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Grasy.
@ricardo - I think the first reason would be speed... runtimes are necessary at other languages too (and suck... and most of them are slow). But... we had talked at about 500K-600K and i don´t think that this makes a big difference.
@paul - How many would buy software that would run on PCs that have a 20MB HD with 32MB Ram and looks like software that 'run a PC with 20MB HD and 32MB Ram' when everybody knows that there is many software out that looks much better (and need a better PC). I think this depends on the software you are making... an office application a game a calculator or... Most office PCs need (including the OS) more than 2 GB of HD... (but most have much more than 2GB) and today one good game need often more than 1GB so 500K are really nothing - I would not say that there is no situation where a small filesize is not a big improvement but i think there are some with PCs lower than PII 300 ... many between PII 300 and PIII 1GHz and some above (but the above one would be more and more so if you make today a software that is running just on faster PCs some could by better and would maybe buy your software later... who would downgrade to a slower PC?
Small filesize is good... but i think not really necessary at most of the software that would be bought by normal PC-Users with normal PCs (that was not from a time where black-white-TV was standard). I know companies that throw PCs to trash (and if nobody like them must pay for doing so) that have much more than 20MB HD and 32MB Ram (no joke).
@ricardo - I think the first reason would be speed... runtimes are necessary at other languages too (and suck... and most of them are slow). But... we had talked at about 500K-600K and i don´t think that this makes a big difference.
@paul - How many would buy software that would run on PCs that have a 20MB HD with 32MB Ram and looks like software that 'run a PC with 20MB HD and 32MB Ram' when everybody knows that there is many software out that looks much better (and need a better PC). I think this depends on the software you are making... an office application a game a calculator or... Most office PCs need (including the OS) more than 2 GB of HD... (but most have much more than 2GB) and today one good game need often more than 1GB so 500K are really nothing
- I would not say that there is no situation where a small filesize is not a big improvement but i think there are some with PCs lower than PII 300 ... many between PII 300 and PIII 1GHz and some above (but the above one would be more and more so if you make today a software that is running just on faster PCs some could by better and would maybe buy your software later... who would downgrade to a slower PC? Small filesize is good... but i think not really necessary at most of the software that would be bought by normal PC-Users with normal PCs (that was not from a time where black-white-TV was standard). I know companies that throw PCs to trash (and if nobody like them must pay for doing so) that have much more than 20MB HD and 32MB Ram (no joke).
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Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by ricardo.
@Grasy:
If you tlk about games i think that you are right, but...
If you talk about some different applications, maybe the scenario is different.
Bloated Software has not only the bad point of a big distribution (+2~3 MG to download) but many times make slower the PC of the user.
Imagine that you want to download a pop3 mail checker and one of them are about 3 MG and the other one is 150k ¿Which one does you download?
For many reasons i download the 150k, not only for the small file size, but i almost know that this software is faster and more reliable.
I think that people are opening their eyes about this matter, a small file most times are a better software: speed, most reliable, etc.
A huge zip means tons of runtimes (makes any PC slower) tons of activex, maybe tons of spyware...
I trust more in small files and i think that the market are going in that direction (small file= no spyware in most cases).
Of course 500k is not to much. I was talking about bloatedware like VB ones.
One more think:
If your executable (without images) has 500k then it sounds like its an interpreter with your code attached and if im right this is slow and not a good option.
Its only MHO
Best Regards
Ricardo
Dont cry for me Argentina...
@Grasy:
If you tlk about games i think that you are right, but...
If you talk about some different applications, maybe the scenario is different.
Bloated Software has not only the bad point of a big distribution (+2~3 MG to download) but many times make slower the PC of the user.
Imagine that you want to download a pop3 mail checker and one of them are about 3 MG and the other one is 150k ¿Which one does you download?
For many reasons i download the 150k, not only for the small file size, but i almost know that this software is faster and more reliable.
I think that people are opening their eyes about this matter, a small file most times are a better software: speed, most reliable, etc.
A huge zip means tons of runtimes (makes any PC slower) tons of activex, maybe tons of spyware...
I trust more in small files and i think that the market are going in that direction (small file= no spyware in most cases).
Of course 500k is not to much. I was talking about bloatedware like VB ones.
One more think:
If your executable (without images) has 500k then it sounds like its an interpreter with your code attached and if im right this is slow and not a good option.
Its only MHO
Best Regards
Ricardo
Dont cry for me Argentina...
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Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Hitman.
>> Can PB support MOD musics ? I don't think so (correct me if im
>> wrong ! im new to PB)
>You are wrong: it can.
Weird, if PB is still using the Midas Sound System, then the MOD system won't be able to use in commercial projects (after contacting the Midas ahthor, it seems the license is about $1000 per app......)
Well, everyone needs to do something for living.
>> Can PB support MOD musics ? I don't think so (correct me if im
>> wrong ! im new to PB)
>You are wrong: it can.
Weird, if PB is still using the Midas Sound System, then the MOD system won't be able to use in commercial projects (after contacting the Midas ahthor, it seems the license is about $1000 per app......)
Well, everyone needs to do something for living.
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Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Rings.
you can also use other player(DLL's) like the FMOD in Purebasic.
there is a LIB-Port for that somewhere.
Its a long way to the top if you wanna .....CodeGuru
what is $1000 for a price for a commercial app ?Originally posted by Hitman
>> Can PB support MOD musics ? I don't think so (correct me if im
>> wrong ! im new to PB)
>You are wrong: it can.
Weird, if PB is still using the Midas Sound System, then the MOD system won't be able to use in commercial projects (after contacting the Midas ahthor, it seems the license is about $1000 per app......)
Well, everyone needs to do something for living.
you can also use other player(DLL's) like the FMOD in Purebasic.
there is a LIB-Port for that somewhere.
Its a long way to the top if you wanna .....CodeGuru
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Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Hitman.
If you don't want to wait, you can simply call MikWin DLL, I remember you can google to get it somewhere, but my lib is only 30K and can be linked into PB's exe.
Second, I must say PB is a ideal programming language, and Blitz should never bother app developing, BB is a pro lang for game.
Well, everyone needs to do something for living.
I know mate, I use FMOD to replace Midas, that's only $100 license fee per app, actually I'm developing the MikMod port library (WIP only, not ready for release......) the quality is roughly the same as FMOD, but no OGG support.what is $1000 for a price for a commercial app ?
you can also use other player(DLL's) like the FMOD in Purebasic.
there is a LIB-Port for that somewhere.
If you don't want to wait, you can simply call MikWin DLL, I remember you can google to get it somewhere, but my lib is only 30K and can be linked into PB's exe.
Second, I must say PB is a ideal programming language, and Blitz should never bother app developing, BB is a pro lang for game.
Well, everyone needs to do something for living.
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Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by fred.
Fred - AlphaSND
Sounds interresting, if you want more infos about the internal integration (for DSound), just tell me...actually I'm developing the MikMod port library (WIP only, not ready for release......) the quality is roughly the same as FMOD, but no OGG support.
Fred - AlphaSND
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Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Grasy.
@ricardo i agree... smaller is nicer but if this is really important depends on the software u are making. PB is getting bigger than 5K with Ogre too so compared to BB3D (which fits best for making games) this is ok (there are other that need much more). I think PB is on a really good way... it´s small, fast and runs on multiple-platforms and you can make games and apps with it (hopes that the 3D-part would be as usefull as the BB3D one sometimes...).
@ricardo i agree... smaller is nicer but if this is really important depends on the software u are making. PB is getting bigger than 5K with Ogre too so compared to BB3D (which fits best for making games) this is ok (there are other that need much more). I think PB is on a really good way... it´s small, fast and runs on multiple-platforms and you can make games and apps with it (hopes that the 3D-part would be as usefull as the BB3D one sometimes...).
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Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by CoderLaureate.
I use Blitz3D for game programming.
For the moment it has some pretty powerful 3D capabilites. I'm not crazy about the fact that it relies on Direct X. Once OGRE becomes moe powerful. Or an Open GL graphics library becomes available for PB. I'm going to drop Blitz.
The people over at Blitz just announced their newest version called "Blitz Plus". Basically, it's a revamped version of Blitz 2D with some user interface code (somewhat similar to PB Gadgets). The price was $60.00 USD. I looked at the price for Blitz Plus, visited this web site, and saw I could have all the power of Pure Basic for the same price? Guess which one I chose.
-Jim
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AMD Duron 950Mhz/Windows XP Pro
I use Blitz3D for game programming.
For the moment it has some pretty powerful 3D capabilites. I'm not crazy about the fact that it relies on Direct X. Once OGRE becomes moe powerful. Or an Open GL graphics library becomes available for PB. I'm going to drop Blitz.
The people over at Blitz just announced their newest version called "Blitz Plus". Basically, it's a revamped version of Blitz 2D with some user interface code (somewhat similar to PB Gadgets). The price was $60.00 USD. I looked at the price for Blitz Plus, visited this web site, and saw I could have all the power of Pure Basic for the same price? Guess which one I chose.
-Jim
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AMD Duron 950Mhz/Windows XP Pro
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Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by CoderLaureate.
-Jim
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AMD Duron 950Mhz/Windows XP Pro
http://www.BlueFireStudios.com
I'm actually using PB because of the tiny file size, and multi-threading capabilities. (Another feature BB doesn't have). I'm not a virus coder, but I'm writting several applications that run on a server, and don't need to be eating up all the system resources.Originally posted by Grasy
But i don´t see a big problem if the executables got 760K. Every CD can hold hundrets of them... with most broadband-internet-connections it´s just a question of secs and on HD it´s a little bit more than nothing. PB supports linux and got many updates in the past (updates in a range for that you have to pay at BB sometimes i´m afaid) so i think PB is nice without the comment that it support small file-sizes... who really choose a language depended on the filesize of the executeables (expect virus-coders)
-Jim
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http://www.BlueFireStudios.com
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Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by CoderLaureate.
There are two reasons why I strongly dislike Bloated (badly written) code, and Run Times.
1.) The bigger and more wasteful your code is the more there is that can go wrong.
2.) If a runtime dll goes bad on a customer's machine your program won't run, and they're gonna come looking for you. Especially if they paid you a large sum of money to write the program for them. Furhter more most computer users out there wouldn't know what to do to fix the problem with the runtime dll.
I'm a consultant, and make a darn good living writting VB programs for the company I work at. On all of my private projects I use PB. I love the compacted-ness of the code.
BB is great for games check out my website at the bottom of the page. We're currently working on a game using BB.
-Jim
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AMD Duron 950Mhz/Windows XP Pro
http://www.BlueFireStudios.com
There are two reasons why I strongly dislike Bloated (badly written) code, and Run Times.
1.) The bigger and more wasteful your code is the more there is that can go wrong.
2.) If a runtime dll goes bad on a customer's machine your program won't run, and they're gonna come looking for you. Especially if they paid you a large sum of money to write the program for them. Furhter more most computer users out there wouldn't know what to do to fix the problem with the runtime dll.
I'm a consultant, and make a darn good living writting VB programs for the company I work at. On all of my private projects I use PB. I love the compacted-ness of the code.
BB is great for games check out my website at the bottom of the page. We're currently working on a game using BB.
-Jim
---------------------------------------------
AMD Duron 950Mhz/Windows XP Pro
http://www.BlueFireStudios.com