Windows for ARM ... PB for ARM ?

[Amundo]

Umm, what most people forget when mobile-CPU is compared with another mobile-CPU, is that no matter how power efficient the hardware is, it's the OS that will determine how long the battery lasts.

Windows & .NET? I'm prepared to eat my words, but that combination doesn't equal CPU-cycle saving....

[Tenaja]

Umm, what most people forget when mobile-CPU is compared with another mobile-CPU, is that no matter how power efficient the hardware is, it's the OS that will determine how long the battery lasts.

Windows & .NET? I'm prepared to eat my words, but that combination doesn't equal CPU-cycle saving....

There is no real reason it would be any worse than Java, since Java and .NET perform similarly within Windows. The only exception would be hardware that uses native Java bytecode support, but ms might accommodate for that, too.

[ultralazor]

Umm, what most people forget when mobile-CPU is compared with another mobile-CPU, is that no matter how power efficient the hardware is, it's the OS that will determine how long the battery lasts.

Windows & .NET? I'm prepared to eat my words, but that combination doesn't equal CPU-cycle saving....

There is no real reason it would be any worse than Java, since Java and .NET perform similarly within Windows. The only exception would be hardware that uses native Java bytecode support, but ms might accommodate for that, too.

JVM and the MSIL(All .NET languages) VM have almost no differences. .NET has more low-level constructs but total lack of support outside windows. Java is even on hardware the size of a fingernail, and heavily implemented in production enviroments around the world, and has been for decades now.

MSVRT and .NET aren't too efficient or scalable..and that's putting it nicely..

Something that actually matters in this discussions: The difference between a x86 EXE and DLL and a ppc w7 EXE and DLL: A header and contents of code sections..same PE format and loader specs..

[Tenaja]

The time is near:

http://gizmodo.com/5863706/samsungs-nex ... s-a-laptop
Samsung's 2 gigahertz, dual-core ARM Cortex A15 CPU and a GPU capable of powering a 3D display at 2560x1600

Fred, I understand you are pretty busy, but Intel is losing out to ARM, in a big way. People have already quit buying netbooks (which are responsible for laptops overtaking desktop sales) in favor of tablets.

[Kuron]

The time is near:

http://gizmodo.com/5863706/samsungs-nex ... s-a-laptop
Samsung's 2 gigahertz, dual-core ARM Cortex A15 CPU and a GPU capable of powering a 3D display at 2560x1600

Fred, I understand you are pretty busy, but Intel is losing out to ARM, in a big way. People have already quit buying netbooks (which are responsible for laptops overtaking desktop sales) in favor of tablets.

But what OS to support with ARM? Windows 8 is expected to fail miserably according to many experts.

[USCode]

But what OS to support with ARM? Windows 8 is expected to fail miserably according to many experts.

On ARM? I would agree with that. But if Intel can manage to create a competitive x86,x64 chipset for tablets and thin laptops then the ability to also run legacy Windows software will be very compelling.

For Fred/PB to support iOS or Android on ARM is unrealistic. However I believe PB for ARM on Windows would be doable.
But given the amount of time they have to work on PB these day, it will be a LONG time before we see that.

[Tenaja]

But what OS to support with ARM? Windows 8 is expected to fail miserably according to many experts.

Well, it would make the most sense to support the most popular, which is Android, by quite a growing margin.

[Tenaja]

For Fred/PB to support iOS or Android on ARM is unrealistic. However I believe PB for ARM on Windows would be doable.
But given the amount of time they have to work on PB these day, it will be a LONG time before we see that.

I agree, iOS is not the place to start. However, after an ARM port is done, iOS support will be no different than X vs. Win.

And yes, I agree; it is unlikely Fred will have time to port anything until he loses his day job. Unfortunately, the continued growth of Arm will give cause for more submissions to the doomsday quotes...

[USCode]

... Unfortunately, the continued growth of Arm will give cause for more submissions to the doomsday quotes...

Hard to blame them. Fred pounded out a bunch of Linux bugs awhile back but has since gone silent and deep again. We don't hear much from Freak these days either.
Why should folks invest further precious time and effort in developing with a product they suspect might be waning? It's still a great product and so personally I still remain optimistic, but wary ...

[Kuron]

But what OS to support with ARM? Windows 8 is expected to fail miserably according to many experts.

On ARM? I would agree with that. But if Intel can manage to create a competitive x86,x64 chipset for tablets and thin laptops then the ability to also run legacy Windows software will be very compelling.

Which would leave us with zero need for ARM support for Windows...

For Fred/PB to support iOS or Android on ARM is unrealistic. However I believe PB for ARM on Windows would be doable.

Given that a multi-billion dollar company like Microsoft is already projected to fail miserably when it comes to Windows 8 on ARM, you are expecting Fred to not only revolutionize the entire industry, but also revolutionize Microsoft and help them make Windows 8 on ARM successful. Fred is a pretty skinny dude, that is a hell of a lot of weight to put on his shoulders and I don't think he could physically carry that kind of weight.

Keep in mind that Microsoft is the company who literally pioneered the modern tablet OS with Microsoft Tablet PC back in 2001 with pen input and voice recognition, with the first Windows tablets appearing in early 2002. Microsoft has a 10 year documented history of completely failing at tablets. XP, Vista and 7 have all failed miserably on tablets. ARM models won't change this for Windows 8. With the exception of Microsoft's marketing campaign, there is zero need or desire in the market for a Windows based tablet. Since people new to tablets can't run their existing Windows software on Windows 8 ARM, most newcomers to tablets are going to choose a platform that is actually supported by developers and has a plethora of software available for it. This would be iOS with Android coming in second.

Of course since the articles a week or so ago projecting Windows 8 on ARM to be a massive failure, this week we have had all of the articles come out about the hardware issues that Windows 8 will be facing when it comes to ARM based notebooks and laptops. ARM based Windows 8 notebooks and laptops won't show up until at least June 2013, which will put broad adoption until, at least, 2014. It won't be until 2015 until the ARM based laptops and notebooks have a chance of challenging the Intel/AMD based alternatives. It looks like Fred would need a few billion dollars of disposable income to be able to help get the hardware to market that is actually capable of running his shiny new PB for Windows ARM.

It would be career suicide for PB to even consider supporting Windows based ARMs. Fred would be better off adding DOS support because at least there are thousands of companies still running DOS based systems, and although small, there is an actual market and established user base.

To put on the hat of reality, for PB ARM to be remotely useful, it would have to target an economically viable platform for the developers using it, that would be iOS. Android would be second. Some of the new Android laptops/tablet hybrids are simply amazing. I love the Transformer Prime. With Apple rumored to be moving to ARM based laptops and desktops, the market for these two ARM platforms will only continue to grow and get even better.

[Zach]

Windows is an entire operating system, PureBasic is a programming language.

Isn't that a little apples to oranges?

[USCode]

All I was saying was that PB Windows for ARM, I think, would be do-able for Fred and Freak ... but I wasn't saying it SHOULD be done.
In fact if you look at my previous posts I've said exactly the opposite and they should wait and see what Intel comes up with.

As Microsoft is working on porting Windows to ARM and that FASM for ARM already exists, wouldn't it be relatively do-able for Fred?
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, wouldn't be the first time!

[Kuron]

Windows is an entire operating system, PureBasic is a programming language.

Isn't that a little apples to oranges?

So you expect PB and PB created programs to be able to be used without an operating system?

[Thorium]

As Microsoft is working on porting Windows to ARM and that FASM for ARM already exists, wouldn't it be relatively do-able for Fred?
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, wouldn't be the first time!

FASM for ARM doesnt matters, if there would be no ARM FASM they could just use another assembler.
I guess the biggest part would be the ARM compiler. Second all the libs need to be adjusted for other API's. And we would need some new libs to fully use mobile features.

I hope they will do it some time and i hope they support Android or just plain Linux. I am not a fan of iOS and it's Apple only.

[J. Baker]

Would love to see iOS support myself but with Fred and Freak both working full time jobs, time is limited to bugs and possibly new features. This topic is nothing more then a dream topic right now. Or we could dream about everyone on the forum sending the PB Team a fat Christmas donation so they wouldn't have to work a day job next year.