The Pirate Bay case

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the.weavster
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Post by the.weavster »

Rings wrote:Okay, some problems for the movies.
Probably not too many problems though, they make plenty of profit from people who enjoy the cinema experience.

The invention of VHS and then DVD just presented them with another opportunity to 'monetize' their output.

Pretty soon the movies end up on free-to-air tv anyway, they just try to milk the money from the suckers whilst the hype is still fresh in their minds.
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Post by pdwyer »

It would hardly be the first time civil disobedience was used to change laws and public opinions...

Thinking about copying though and blaming the facilitator:

Before the WWW, I had a radio cassette recorder. it had two slots for tapes and a "high speed dubbing" button. lots of people had these. Looked like this:

Image

Why wasn't this illegal???? Surely this facilitates piracy!!! By Design! Not just like a PC which happens to be able to do it as an extra

And companies made money from selling this feature!!!

how is this different to the pirate bay?
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Post by Demivec »

@pdwyer: I think the idea behind cassette dubbing not being illegal was that the copies were not as good as the original. The copies degraded with each generation of copies. With digital media, the copies can be exact or simply imperceptively different from the originals. Each generation of a digital copy is exactly like the original copy.

For the record (pun intended), I still own a high-speed tape-to-tape dubber as well as a CD-to-tape dubber. :wink:
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Post by pdwyer »

I dissagree to a degree, but I hear what you are saying, it sounds like a minor technicality.

Firstly
Mp3, MP4, DVI and other compressed formats are not digitally perfect copies, they are lossy compression so I think that arguement is spurious.

Secondly,
The Cassette recorder faclitates dubbing by design. How it's used is left up to the owner. Bit torrent file sharing trackers facilitate sharing, what files are shared is left to the user. Both can and are (were) used for piracy.

If bit torrent sites vanish, they will be replaced by something else for one simple reason. There is still a demand. that is what needs to be addressed here. If there was a cheap, easy, legal solution to this ( and I think there is but the content providers are scared of it) then demand would drop off as these apps became mainstream and the piracy issues would be clearer and more in the background minority.
Paul Dwyer

“In nature, it’s not the strongest nor the most intelligent who survives. It’s the most adaptable to change” - Charles Darwin
“If you can't explain it to a six-year old you really don't understand it yourself.” - Albert Einstein
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Post by PB »

> Mp3, MP4, DVI and other compressed formats are not digitally perfect
> copies, they are lossy compression so I think that arguement is spurious

Well, after the initial conversion of the raw CD track to MP3, people can keep
sharing the MP3 without any further lossy compression, so that's the difference.
Besides, these days FLAC is used a lot for sharing -- it's lossless and the same
quality as the original CD recording because it's usually the original file.
I compile using 5.31 (x86) on Win 7 Ultimate (64-bit).
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Post by SFSxOI »

Demivec wrote:@pdwyer: I think the idea behind cassette dubbing not being illegal was that the copies were not as good as the original. The copies degraded with each generation of copies. With digital media, the copies can be exact or simply imperceptively different from the originals. Each generation of a digital copy is exactly like the original copy.

For the record (pun intended), I still own a high-speed tape-to-tape dubber as well as a CD-to-tape dubber. :wink:
Hmmm...maybe...but under the laws in the U.S. a person is allowed to make a copy for personal use and that may be the reason it wasn't illegal. Its interesting to note that the concept of what we consider piracy today did not begin to take form until the landmark BetaMax decision many years ago. Basically, if that decision had never been rendered then the Pirate Bay case would have never taken place because the concept of 'making available' would have not been introduced (well, someone probably would have done it at some point). But the point is that all of the current cases for piracy against file sharing are all based on the 'making available' theory.
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Post by Tipperton »

<withdrawn>
Last edited by Tipperton on Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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the.weavster
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Post by the.weavster »

Tipperton wrote:
the.weavster wrote:
Tipperton wrote:There is a big difference between libraries and electronic mass distribution and you know it
Don't presume to tell me what I do and don't know, I'll express my own thoughts and opinions.
Even if they are totally and completely wrong making you look like a complete fool?
Of course. You judge me as a fool somebody else may not.

Tipperton wrote:most crooks don't care what other people think.
Only the vain do.

Tipperton wrote:Because it's obvious you feel no remorse or regret over your crimes of theft so you are beyond repenting.
I have never stolen anything. This is the dictionary definition of theft:

Theft: the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it

As you can see the definition does not describe file-sharing. Even if I had downloaded torrents it would not constitute theft.

Tipperton wrote:It's a good thing for you this isn't my forum. I'd ban you in a heartbeat.
That doesn't surprise me at all, I've seen in a previous thread you demanding someone stop posting because they had the temerity to disagree with you.

Tipperton wrote:This discussion is over, I will no long lower myself to talk to scum like you.
You're very willing to lower yourself to name calling though.
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the.weavster
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Post by the.weavster »

Here's an interesting little twist in the Pirate Bay case: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 73261.html
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Post by utopiomania »

@pdwyer, those cassette tape recorders was SERIOUSLY flawed quality wise compared to CD or vinyl discs.

Pirating could destroy or supress the entire music, film or software industry, and I don't want that to happen!

This industry produces so many nice movies, so much music and entertainment and enlightenment for so
many people, and I hope they can continue to do that for a long time. :)

Pirates and criminals are loosers. Die, scumbags! :D
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Post by pdwyer »

utopiomania wrote:@pdwyer, those cassette tape recorders was SERIOUSLY flawed quality wise compared to CD or vinyl discs.
Clearly you haven't seen the quality of some of the compressed DVI (AVI) files that get shared! :lol:

I grabbed a missed episode of Battlestar Galactica from bit torrent a few times (seemed a better idea than wait 9 months for the DVD set of the entire season) and THAT is "SERIOUSLY flawed quality" :D


@Flamers: it is possible to dissagree with respect you know! you'll probably feel better about the discussion too.
Paul Dwyer

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“If you can't explain it to a six-year old you really don't understand it yourself.” - Albert Einstein
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Post by Mistrel »

Content aside, I don't agree with the verdict as it sets a dangerous precedent. Trackers are no different from search engines like Google with the exception that the content is user-provided. However, none of the content uploaded is actually illegal. Google indexes illegal content too but the difference is that they index it themselves. Should that be considered irresponsible too?

TPB will even remove any offending torrents from its tracker that are identified by record companies. They've stated this before.

The point shouldn't be what's being indexed but instead should be what rights to liability internet search engines have in a particular country.

[quote=""Judge In Pirate Bay Trial Biased""]http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/23/1159216[/quote]

I hope they sue for a mistrial or present this evidence during an appeal. This verdict should not have been handed down.

Just because you don't like torrent trackers doesn't mean you can sue the pants off of only the people you don't like. As I said before, this is a very, very bad precedent that only paves the way for a smaller, government regulated, censored internet.
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Post by SFSxOI »

the.weavster wrote:Here's an interesting little twist in the Pirate Bay case: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 73261.html
Yeah, I read that too. The interesting part is this:

"He also sits on the board of the Swedish Association for the Protection of Industrial Property (SFIR), an organisation that lobbies for tougher copyright laws, reports Sveriges Radio's P3 news programme today.


Despite today’s reports judge Norström denied that his involvement with the two copyright organisations constituted a "conflict of interest" in his ability to preside over the most high-profile trial involving illegal filesharing in European history.


“Every time I take on a case I assess the chances for any recusation, but in this case I don’t believe that my impartiality was affected,” said Norström."

Now, this judge sits on the board, is involved, has seen any information presented by these organizations, has associated with functions and meetings and gatherings and discussion in and for an organization that is supported or affected by big content money. How is that not a conflict of interest? How can his association not have any influence on him? How can it be tested and shown that his association with those organizations did not have an influence and cause a conflict of interest? It can't be tested, all we have is what he said, his denial of a conflict of interest. Thats a little like a person on trial saying "I didn't do it" and the judge saying "OK, you didn't do it because you said so." The accused doesn't get the same benefit of the doubt. I doubt seriously that the judges association with these organizations did not have some sort of influence on him, it has to have had some sort of influence in his thought process. Like minded people band together, like minded people join the organizations that think as they do, like minded people generally think along the lines of other like minded people, its human nature to do so and can't be helped. Is this judge a complete moron? There should be a retrial, not for the benefit of the Pirate Bay people but for the benefit of justice in ensuring an impartial and fair verdict. I doubt that a retrial with a judge that was not influenced by thinking alike along the lines of big content would allow such an unproven 'making available' theory to be introduced as proof based solely on simply that big content said so, and thus I think the outcome of the case would be completly different.

<begin joking part>
hey, I just realized...I copy and pasted part of the article from the link....according to the Pirate Bay verdict i'm a pirate and thief now. I'm not alone though ...looks like lots of links posted here at PureBasic...hmmmm....looks like were all a bunch of pirates and thiefs now according to the Pirate Bay verdict, including Tipperton who quoted someones post without their express permission. Oh the shame of it all, oh the agony, oh the soul wrenching moral confusion and delima. I wonder if we will all get the same jail cell, or our own individual cells? Or maybe some will be unfortunate enough to get a cell with someone nammed Bubba who has been really really lonely and whos first words to you are "Ya sure got a pretty mouth"? I can see us all now sitting around and having conversations with the other inmates..."What did you do to get sent here?" .."I used an axe to kill 10 people. What did you do?" ..."hmmm..I ..errr...I..uhhhh...posted a link to some place on the internet." :) Were doomed, doomed I tell you...oh the humanity.<end joking part>
Last edited by SFSxOI on Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Tipperton »

<withdrawn>
Last edited by Tipperton on Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by SFSxOI »

"Theft: the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it"

Hmmm...no, that is not an old "definition", that is a current "definition" upon which cannon law (in some places napoleonic code) is founded and the basic principal of property ownership is founded. Without that 'definition' (although its very simplistic in its stated form and does not fully express the overall concept) you would not be allowed to own property at all. It doesn't need to be updated, it fills the need for requiring proof to show that something was taken, it implies ownership, it simply needs to be adhered to.

I don't understand all the name calling, and all the accusations in this thread. In the accusatory posts I don't see any logical discussion or argument, all I see is emotion based accusations. I just don't understand it. Its a discussion and opinion based thread, it doesn't need accusations. But to each their own I guess.
Last edited by SFSxOI on Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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