The best programming language for kids and beginners

[Tipperton]

Pascal.

Indeed, although I started with BASIC, it wasn't long before I discovered Pascal and used it while learning the bulk of my programming skills. To this day I still practice it's concepts even if the language I'm using doesn't require it. And when there's an option to require any of Pascal's concepts in your code, I always turn them on. Examples are Visual Basic's Option Explicit and PureBasic's EnableExplicit.

.. He has a slight problem called marriage and kids now:):)

who hasn't that illness too ?

I don't! I'm single, live alone, and intend to keep it that way!

[Kaeru Gaman]

I had Pascal in the InfoClub in school in the mid-80ies,
on that small Apple consoles, 32K, 64K, don't remember how big they were.

since I started with the terrificly easy hack-and-go BASIC on the C64 and it's standard squared grafic matrix,
Pascal with its higher restrictions and its strange turtle-grafix came up quite awkward to me.

I met strong restrictions before when testing COBOL on a Mainframe,
but this is easier to accept than on a standalone mini-machine.

when I first came to PureBasic, I was thrilled that I finally found a Language where you can code and test that easy,
no need to program yourself a red butt or search for strange content design tools before you see anything.

sorry for the fence story...

[garretthylltun]

For introducing basic programming to someone, I usually end up setting them up with "JustBasic" http://www.justbasic.com/

After they've gotten the hang of it and want more, I give them a list of other more powerful Basic's... Of course PureBasic is at the top of my list

[bembulak]

Python (making GUIs with wxPython and wxGlade)
or
Pascal (Freepascal with Lazarus as an IDE).

Free (as in freedom and beer) and meets your requirements. Only limitation (?) on Python is, that it is interpreted. But a pro is the "Py-Shell".
But both are crossplattform, easy to learn and powerful.

Python is unbeatable in simplicty.

(You could also use an Edubuntu-Live-CD to teach and use KTurtle or something for teaching
http://edu.kde.org/kturtle/
)

[Tipperton]

I had Pascal in the InfoClub in school in the mid-80ies, on that small Apple consoles, 32K, 64K, don't remember how big they were.

If it was Apple Pascal, the computers had 64K.

After I had spent about 6 months with Pascal, I switched to assembly language for the bulk of my programming on the Apple. Nothing available at the time compared to it for speed, size and power.

[CherokeeStalker]

I had Pascal in the InfoClub in school in the mid-80ies, on that small Apple consoles, 32K, 64K, don't remember how big they were.

If it was Apple Pascal, the computers had 64K.

After I had spent about 6 months with Pascal, I switched to assembly language for the bulk of my programming on the Apple. Nothing available at the time compared to it for speed, size and power.

There was an excellent language called ZBasic for the Apple ][s that was
just amazing. I had a ][c, a ][e & a ][GS over the years. Anyone remember the Applied Engineering company that made add-in boards for the Apple 2s?
Way ahead of their time.

[erosolmi]

If I can do something to consider thinBasic as a possible option let me know.

There is a great list of new improvements coming next version (out mid of August). The biggest one will be CALLBACKS functions for user interface elements and windows, exactly like real compilers (but thinBasic is interpreted).

Regards
Eros

[Tipperton]

There was an excellent language called ZBasic for the Apple ][s that was just amazing.

I remember that, looked interesting though I never used it. By the time I heard of it I was so well entrenched into writing all my stuff in assembly language that I didn't really have any interest in it. Might have been different if I was still using Apple's Basic.

Anyone remember the Applied Engineering company that made add-in boards for the Apple 2s? Way ahead of their time.

The name sounds familiar but I can't recall any of their products.

And in response to the topic starter:

3. Purebasic. The best tool which covers all the above requirements except free .

PureBasic may not be free but the evaluation version is and most if not all of the features disabled in the evaluation version are advanced features that wouldn't really be suitable for beginners anyway. If your readers like PureBasic and want the advanced features, they can choose to buy it.

4. thinBasic. Free, not Multiplatform, with the syntax of PowerBasic (which i do not like it very much).

That's because thinBasic is written in PowerBASIC, or at the very least, I believe that the author of thinBasic is a PowerBASIC user.

[thanos]

PureBasic may not be free but the evaluation version is and most if not all of the features disabled in the evaluation version are advanced features that wouldn't really be suitable for beginners anyway. If your readers like PureBasic and want the advanced features, they can choose to buy it.

Thanks for the post.
Dare say you are right.
Regards.

Thanos

[thanos]

@erosolmi

If I can do something to consider thinBasic as a possible option let me know.

There is a great list of new improvements coming next version (out mid of August). The biggest one will be CALLBACKS functions for user interface elements and windows, exactly like real compilers (but thinBasic is interpreted).

Regards
Eros

As you can see in my first post the thinBASIC is/was one of my first five options.

...
4. thinBasic. Free, not Multiplatform, with the syntax of PowerBasic (which i do not like it very much).
...

I really appreciate this language!
To be honest i did not wrote much code with it but i really believe that it has features and characteristics who deserves the attention of programmers. Of course, if there a visual designer included in the package the language would be more attractive.
I decided to use the Purebasic demo and, at least for now, AutoItX3. Beyond this, i am also checking another options like Gentee, xbLite, wxBasic, PlayBasic, Neko, Emergence Basic, Lua etc.
As i wrote above i really like the thinBASIC's features, but i am much more experienced in AutoIt.
So, if i will replace the AutoIt and choose the thinBASIC i need some support and somebody who will answer to my stupid questions.
If i am guessing right, are you the co-author of thinBASIC?
Regards.

Thanos

[erosolmi]

Hi Thanos,

I'm co-author of thinBasic. The other co-author is Roberto Bianchi. Than there are some passionated users that have developed some of the many thinBasic modules.

thinBasic has a modular structure: one main Core module (in charge of parsing, memory/data handling, string and math handling, script flow, ...) plus many other modules loaded at runtime when script request them and in charge of specific keywords: User Interface (GUI: next version will have dialogs and acontrol callbacks), Console programming, advanced math (next version will have matrix calculus), TBGL (OpenGL and games module) ... there are many.

Apart main Core engine module, all modules can be developed by anyone using different languages and thinBAsic SDK. We develop thinBAsic SDK to be used by PowerBasic, FreeBasic, C/C++, Delphi, ASM. Bealive or not thinBasic has also an inline assembler called Oxygen you can find here and developed with thinBasic SDK for FreeBasic.

The important thing to consider at first is if you need an interpreter or a compiler. thinBasic is 100% a Basic Interpreted Language. Even if thinBasic is able to create executables, they are "bundled" executables that is the original script is bundled with all the needed libraries (plus whatever you need to add inside it) into an executable that will extract needed files every time it is executed. It is a common way to create executable but many so called "compilers" do not say it. So if you need a compiler, go with something like PureBasic, FreeBasic, PowerBasic, ...

Regarding thinBasic syntax you mentioned, yes it is very close to PowerBasic for the only reason we like the coherence of PowerBasic syntax and how it is evolved during those many years. Coherence is one of the aspects we consider important in language development.

If you are a searching execution speed, do your tests by yourself. thinBasic speed is quite remarcable comparing with other interpreted language. Because you are familiar with AutoIt, make some comparing tests and you will notice ... something. I'm very fond of AutoIt too especially for UI area but when dealing with math calculations and speed in general thinBasic is another thing.

That said, if you think thinBasic con do some of the job you need, please register to thinBasic forum and feel free tro ask whatever you will need. I'm sure you will get you reply very soon. Despite thinBasic is free, we also try to maintain a professional help material. A 1.6MB .CHM file is included in thinBasic distribution. Plus, the same file and a HTML version can be downloaded at http://www.thinbasic.com/index.php?opti ... &Itemid=66 or viewed online at http://www.thinbasic.com/public/product ... index.html
In help material you will find thinBasic keywords divided by modules. Every keywords (apart the ones in Core module) are available only if the script ask to load a specific module.

Also consider we are very fast in development phase so if something is missing and you ask for it, do not be surprised to have it done the next few days.

Ciao
Eros

[erosolmi]

Of course, if there a visual designer included in the package the language would be more attractive.

Yes, you are right, I know that. But consider thinBAsic is quite young compared with many other languages around. It is only since 2005 that we are officially out. And our module working on User Interface is still under development even if it can accomplish already quite good results.

In the next thinBasic version (due to end of August) there will be a great improvement on this area: Dialogs and Controls CALLBACKs. It means you will be able to associate every windows and every control on windows with a script functions in change to handle specific events. thinBasic will automatically handle events data (handle of the window, event code, wParam, lParam, control handle) and pass to them to the callback function ready to be managed by the programmer.

It is the same method used by real compilers. We did some stress test with more that 150 windows open at the same time each having its own fucntion callback and each having controls with specific callbacks. All worked fine also on a 1GH CPU so enough room for improvements.

We like to share our development in public even if new feature is not out. This will show to every users our insignts and at the same time can help us understand if we are going into the right diretion getting users replies and feeling. So for new new UI callbacks discussion topic is located at http://community.thinbasic.com/index.php?topic=1882.0

As last info I would like to mention TBJ (thinBasic Journal). It is a free PDF zine talking about thinBasic. First issue see the light in July thanks to Petr Schreiber (authot of thinBasic TBGL module). TBJ is located at http://community.thinbasic.com/index.php?topic=1865.0
TBJ will be one of the info sources about thinBasic. A new issue will be created when new thinBasic version will be released. Everyone can contribute to TBJ with tutorials, articles, or whatever material they want to publish. Just drop a mail to Petr.

Have fun.
Ciao
Eros

[the.weavster]

I agree with koehler and bembulak, Python is the real deal.

It's clean, clear, free, cross platform, procedural and/or OOP, has oodles of free modules available and there's plenty of good books for it when your students get to a more advanced level.

Not only that but with DLR, Silverlight and Microsofts' free IronPython Studio it looks set to go everywhere.

[thanos]

@koehler

@bembulak

@the.weavster

Thank you very much for your suggestion!
I read that Python is clean, clear, free, cross platform, procedural and/or OOP, has oodles of free modules available and there's plenty of good books for it when your students get to a more advanced level as the the.weavster wrote.
The problem is that i have not any experience in this language, at least at the moment. Yesterday i ordered a book for beginners to start learning Python. So, i will post my experience in few days.
I found another two scripting languages. The Lua and the Boo languages. The Boo language is a new object oriented statically typed programming language for the Common Language Infrastructure with a python inspired syntax and a special focus on language and compiler extensibility as its creator say.
Did you have use any of them? How are they comparing to Python?
Regards

Thanos

[the.weavster]

I'm also quite a Python newbie, but I'm starting to get very enthused.

This was the first tutorial I read and I thought it was a good starter: http://hetland.org/writing/instant-python.html