I hate Bush and politics of the USA

[remi_meier]

Interesting topic, but too much emotions in it...

I'm going to comment some parts. This is my opinion and I'm not a chief
in politics
I'm leaving out the parts, where I agree or don't know anything about it.

The USA didn't kill him, the Iraqi people did. Although the Iraqi government is new, it is a democracy. Like any young democracy, they have a lot of work done to iron out problems, but under their current government and laws, Saddam was tried and found quilty. This was a justice that Saddam never extended to his victims.

Right, but the punishment was clear right in the beginning of the process,
wasn't the USA just pushing away their problem because they now aren't
responsible for his death?

I don't think any of us will live to see the day Germany will ever be taken seriously when offering an opinion on human rights.

Sorry to say this: That's the view of an American. I know a lot of examples,
where Americans are just ignorant to this sort of things. They don't know
Europe well enough and they just can't accept, that a country can change.
The Milgram-experiment showed us, that the same could have happened
in other countries, too! It was just the situation at this time which allowed
it much easier.

In order to keep Saddam from being hanged, would you have agreed to provide housing for him in your home for the rest of his life, and provide meals and health care for him for the rest of his life? Would you have guaranteed to supervise his every move in your home and to be legally responsible for any of his future actions that may harm another person?

I don't want to wish anyone to be dead. If it had this consequences described
above, I had to bear them.

Putting a criminal to death isn't murder. Its an execution (pun not intended) of the sentence passed on him by the legal system of his country. If one does not want to get put to death, one should not commit crimes in ones country that makes them eligible for the death penalty.

It's the same for me.

The present President Bush is trying to finish what his father started, and has made a big horrible mess of it all.

You think its bad now? Just wait. I am convinced our only reason for invading Iraq was to secure a staging ground for when we go after Iran and Syria. Now we will not have to worry about getting permission to use airspace. What is scary is if we make any move against Iran, Russia will most likely jump to their defense, and it would be inevitable that it would become a nuclear exchange at some point.

IMO the USA wouldn't have attacked the Iraq if there wouldn't be oil. IMO
they just would have ignored Saddam.

does the hanging of sadam solve the problem?

When a certain user from China was here promoting a warez version of PB and giving it out, did removing the kid solve the problem? Yes, I haven't seen him around here passing out free copies of PB.

When you have a problem, eliminating the person who is causing the problem also eliminates the problem.

Removing and eliminating are not the same things!

However in the case of Saddam, we have a whole new series of problems to deal with. But we would be dealing with them whether he was executed or put in prison for the rest of his life.

Yep. But perhaps not some revenge thoughts...

It would be nice if all countries could get along, but it is never going to happen. The UN has been shown to be worthless when it comes to solving international conflicts. Many countries and cultures in the middle east do not even respect diplomacy, they only respect acts of force.

Perhaps they are just not succeeding because there are countries like the
USA that don't follow the decisions of the UN and just do what they want
to do?

France is letting itself be overrun by Islamic extremists and this is starting to happen in the UK, Canada and slowly here in the USA where political correctness is destroying society as we know it.

I don't know. We also have Islamic extremists here, but we don't have
the same problems with them. I think there is a solution.

With the "convert or die" and increasingly "convert and die" mentality of the extremists, people are not left with much of a choice what to do about it. Passivity breeds violence.

The problem is, there are not just Islamists that think this way :roll:


I don't want to offend, but just show the view that many European people
have. I also understand why the Americans don't understand this "hate",
because they did a lot for us all. But I think, they are just overdoing it.

[Nik]

Well though it seems you think because we Germans were not respecting human rights 60 years ago we are not to be trusted forever, I must tell you we probabyl learned a lot from what we did. And we only had the chance to learn from our mistakes because we had some intelligent guys who created our constituion in which the first article says "Human dignity is inviolable.", and that's whats wrong about Iraq now, they don't use their chance to become a respectable democratic nation (which for most Europeans includes the abolishment of death penalty). Nazi time told us that just because a law allows something it doesn't have to be right to do. I mean the judges who sentenced the heros fighting against Hitler were doing everything acording to law in the same way as it was legal to kill those 4.5 million jews. However being allowed by law doesn't make it any less a crime. I mean it's not only saddam who gets sentenced to death but also normal criminals in the US and there are many cases where these people have been proven not guilty after their execution. If they had just been imprisoned they would probably have had some years of live left. :roll:
I don't say Saddam is in any way not guilty but that doesn't mean one has the right to kill him. He definitely is a war criminal and therefore he should be prosceuted but not in this way, I mean the Iraqi people should work up their history in the same way we did and that will take it's time and it won't be easy but it would have lead to a conclusion. This same problem also occurs with other nations neither russia worked up Stalins time where he killed even more people that Hitler for a matter of fact. Nor have the US worked up their dark times of history which they certainly have, take for example the Viatnam war where CIA Agents killed war prisoners just to scare other war prisoners to get them talking.
That said I think no nation how big it might be has the right to play like it didn't have dark times. Bush must understand that they are humans not God and that they make mistakes which have to be accepted as mistakes to be able to learn from them.

[Kale]

Sadam got what he deserved. There is no God so we all mete out justice as we see fit! Maybe Iraq can move on now. 'nuff said!

[va!n]

sadly war and millitary are the biggest business in this world. where got all the so called terrorist and bad guys mainly the weapons from? What about the big group (China, France, GB, Russia and USA ) standing for peace but on the other side they are creating and exporting weapons...

It would make more sence, if humans learn to share and accept things instead making war. The money of this big business could help worldwide humans... but this will never happen, because the big guys in this business are playing with other humans and they are making a lot of money.. its all like a big bad game...

[Pantcho!!]

@Brice Manuel: I can't find anything in your post to disagree with. But responses like mine and LuCiFeR[SD] will likely be in the minority.

me too.

I don't think any of us will live to see the day Germany will ever be taken seriously when offering an opinion on human rights.

Sorry to say this: That's the view of an American. I know a lot of examples,
where Americans are just ignorant to this sort of things. They don't know
Europe well enough and they just can't accept, that a country can change.
The Milgram-experiment showed us, that the same could have happened
in other countries, too! It was just the situation at this time which allowed
it much easier.

Hmm i disagree, i am not saying that what he said it's true
but if you look close enough there is so much hatred around the world
specially in europe aginst jews.

Germany has change thats for sure i also like their new prime minister she looks like a sharp headed women that can lead very well!
I have also aquired many good friendship among the net with out judging each other (the one that i am jewish or the other which is germen).

but hatred is still out there.

These topics are so full of emotions but i wanna tell a little story:

Code: Select all

Once upon a time there was a bad ruler who said kill all the PinkDudes, I dont like their color nor their how they act or what they believe.

All the PinkDudes were so afraid and did'nt know what to do.
So a smart Carpet dealer PinkDude came to the Ruler offering him carpets as a good gesture, Showing him many brands of carpets
all the carpets were single colored.
The ruler looked at PinkDude with laughter as he saw him about to leave but there was another carpet left which he did'nt want to show the ruler.
So the ruler asked the PinkDude show me that carpet.

The PinkDude was smart, telling the ruler "this carpet is not good looking and he brought by mistake he is going to be thrown"

The ruler told PinkDude "Show me the carpet or i'll feed you to my pet piranas!"

Then PinkDude held is breath to the last carpet. the carpet was glorious marvelous with so many rainbow colors.

The ruler told him, "This carpet rules! so alive so many colors, why would u like to throw that away??!"

The PinkDude looked at the ruler smiling and asked him "Then don't you think a world with many cultores and diffrent believes will be beautilful?"

The ruler smiled at the PinkDude and by sending him away he ordered to let all the PinkDudes live peacefully.

ofcourse i got this story tweaked but it was told to me when i was very young and i like it alot.

Peace.

[merihevonen]

Hello!

Speaking about Bush and the USA, do you people now how much the U.S. National Debt is?
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

Not much and USA will break just like the Soviet Union did.

[remi_meier]

Nobody has to share my opinion, but I'll tell you all the same

Hmm i disagree, i am not saying that what he said it's true
but if you look close enough there is so much hatred around the world
specially in europe aginst jews.

Germany has change thats for sure i also like their new prime minister she looks like a sharp headed women that can lead very well!
I have also aquired many good friendship among the net with out judging each other (the one that i am jewish or the other which is germen).

but hatred is still out there.

Yeah, hatred is everywhere, at the moment, hatred against the islam
is growing...
There is hatred against the rich, against the USA, against Iran, against
Iraq, against foreigners in general, against China, etc.
And actually, I don't see more hatred against jews than against all other
things I enumerated.
Of course there are always groups that overdo it and there are laws
against these groups. But IMO the situation with Hitler was just too extreme.
He was a very good rhetorician and could convince all the people. HE hated
the jews, HE overdid it. I don't want to say that the ones who followed
him were not responsible for their doings, but Hitler was just the head
who started the real things. He strengthened the hatred against jews
so that nearly everybody was quiet or followed him. Nobody stopped
him because he was cruel but ALSO gave the people work and stability.
He could convince the nation. But nobody should forget human rights...

IMO, a similar thing happened in Iraq and Saddam. The USA did not stop
him either before, because they could benefit of him. But afterwards
he became a danger with nuclear weapons... or was it just the oil?

I really don't know if we could stop somebody like Hitler today. There is
enough hatred around for a 3rd World War against the Islam... Perhaps
a new form of World War has already started and we don't even remark
it... Some say, the USA is going to be the same as Germany was in 1935,
a nation that followed its leader without thinking because they get manipulated.



Yes, afterwards one is always cleverer...

[Nik]

Thats absolutely true, though I must say that today there is probably less hatred against jews than ever before in the last 4000 years, I mean it started with the egyptians and found it's extremest form in Holocaust. Since then thinks have changed, today it's mostly the Islamic world that still hates the jews. Which of course might include a good part of the millions of Islamic people in Germany. For the native Germans I think the thing has changed I don't say there are no native German racists anymore especially in the Eastern parts of Germany (where in reality there are near to no foreigners). Where I live in the Southern part of Germany it looks pritty good to me especially when looking at the higher educated parts of society. (In my school for example we have pritty many people from different parts of the world and we didn't have any problem with racism yet, there are only a few Jews though, I think I only know one Jewish girl (a very nice one I must say ))

[Pantcho!!]

... I think I only know one jewish girl (a very nice one I must say ))

You dog

[Nik]

I mean in person^^

[blueznl]

yeah right!

now we're all done shouting at each other about politics, can we go back to coding?

[thefool]

About Kim-jong-il, he is not really that evil. He is just incapable of managing the country!

[Intrigued]

Hello!

Speaking about Bush and the USA, do you people now how much the U.S. National Debt is?
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

Not much and USA will break just like the Soviet Union did.

If that's accurate, ouch! I thought I was carrying some debt. (thanks in most part to my new (used) home purchase of recent).

Break like the S.U.? Nah... they'll just print more Monopoly money, stuff the banks, and call it a day. Nothing out of the norm?

[gnozal]

There is by far much persons killed in any country all around the world but the US government did nothing even when the North Korea launched missile with nuclear warhead ...

And we (USA) did nothing in 2003 when for socio-economic reasons France massacred 14,802 of its elderly citizens. France slaughtered more people in a matter of months than Kim does in a year.

In 2003 there was a heat wave, causing 14 802 more deaths than normal. Surely France can control the weather. Especially with a certain huge country totally unwilling to accept anti-pollution agreements like the Kyoto protocol.

I wonder if Brice Manuel was serious with this ridiculous post ...
Maybe he's just misinformed, but what serious media could ever claim something like that

[Derek]

yeah right!

now we're all done shouting at each other about politics, can we go back to coding?

I second that.

You should never start a debate about politics or religion, (or football )