PureBasic Forums - English

> isn't this kind of topic and discussion, even though its in off-topic, better
> suited to the IBasic or Ebasic forum?

I agree. I've always thought it's totally disrespectful to both Fred and the
forums to discuss other Basics here. "Competition is good", yada yada yada,
so what? In all other forums/groups/etc it's called TROLLING when you start
topics about the competition. Plain as that. It's only by Fred's good nature
that he hasn't banned it here, but that doesn't mean it's something to take
advantage of. There's currently two threads in this "Off Topic" forum about
other Basics: this one, and "GFA-Basic 32 free for download". Why does Fred
have to come here and see that? He pays for these forums to discuss his own
language, to nurture it, to get feedback, to improve it. But hey, let's all talk
about the competition instead, and talk about where to download it, etc.

End rant.

I have something to say about iBasic, it's more of a personal note hehehe
In 2004 I found iBasic and quickly purchased my license for it. It wasn't exactly what I wanted in a basic language but it was pretty easy to use and cheap. The next day, I stumbled upon PureBasic. I fell in love right away and since then , I have regretted buying my iBasic license and haven't used it since. True story.

In all other forums/groups/etc it's called TROLLING when you start
topics about the competition.

I agree and you and I have been flamed for saying that in the past.

Other than an apparent manipulative, instigative game, why did Kale even start this thread? I do think it is a game with him, because then he posted a link here to the other forums, claiming people on the other forums were badmouthing PB, which is untrue. Nobody badmouthed PB there. Kale seems to be a manipulative and instigative kid who delights in setting one community against the other and trying to create "product wars" where they really don't exist.

PB wrote:There's currently two threads in this "Off Topic" forum about
other Basics: this one, and "GFA-Basic 32 free for download".

I posted the GFA-Basic stuff, so here is my answer :
- I think I have proved my dedication to Purebasic enough
- GFA-Basic is dead since over 5 years, and my post was meant for 'BASIC language collectors' ; who really wants to use it when there is Purebasic ? A 800kb ocx runtime, german docs and no support ... Not really a PB competitor !
- EBasic, on the other hand ... posted by a 'partner developer' ...

Kale wrote:

thefool wrote:but as far as i see, the assembly code trond posted isn't just alike. They are equal, and they do the stuff in the same order. The only possible explanation is, that the compiler is written in the same compiler, and it happens to be some kind of internal actions. But even so, its just too much alike..

I'm sure they probably would look the same as they both use the same assembler (nasm). The parsers differs, which were created using Parser Generator2 for Yacc and Lex. Both language's IDEs and compilers are written in VC++ 5.0 using DLL's written in Aurora. Both share a lot of code with each other including IBasic. Where possible, everything is being re-written using Aurora.

So whats the big deal? :roll:

So they're sharing a lot of code, looks the same, does the same, but are different altogether?

Kale wrote:IBasic is dead! EBasic is a different entity altogether.

White Eagle wrote:

In all other forums/groups/etc it's called TROLLING when you start
topics about the competition.

I agree and you and I have been flamed for saying that in the past.

Other than an apparent manipulative, instigative game, why did Kale even start this thread? I do think it is a game with him, because then he posted a link here to the other forums, claiming people on the other forums were badmouthing PB, which is untrue. Nobody badmouthed PB there. Kale seems to be a manipulative and instigative kid who delights in setting one community against the other and trying to create "product wars" where they really don't exist.

You like to throw shit around? When I and Kale seem to disagree, you disagree with both of us?

Also, it's not true what you said that people on other forums are not badmouthing PB. Here's some quotes about PB from the Aurora forum:

Therefore, I found PureBasic (Oct. 2003). After talking with the community, I decided to purchase a copy and port my projects over. Not much of a problem there. After awhile, a few things came apparent. Consistancy is the main thing, half completed features, all that fun and jazz. Then the newest window version came out (v4) and is completely unusable for any kind of threading.

PB impliments partial network functionality

About OGRE:

I really cant speak for the engine itself. As I attempt to use it from the PureBasic wrappings. That in itself is not really possible. So I really cant speak on how good or bad Ogre3D is ...

I've been using visual basic for a long time, and oddly enough it can do things purebasic and ibasic cannot do easily (if at all) such as fast db calls, iocp and the like.

Emphasis mine, PB can do absolutely anything if you're capable of programming it.

This person is not a random troll, he's one of the "partner developers".

Trond, those comments are not "bad mouthing". You can find the same type of comments of this forum. Some people were simply stating their personal preferences. This is not a Holy War it's simply some people having a preference for one type of language over another.

Also, that last quote was praising Visual Basic and putting down both IBasic and PureBasic.

White Eagle wrote:Other than an apparent manipulative, instigative game, why did Kale even start this thread? I do think it is a game with him, because then he posted a link here to the other forums, claiming people on the other forums were badmouthing PB, which is untrue.

It isn't untrue, as you weren't able to see the thread! But certain users were badmouthing PB and it's development team.

They were also commenting on the 'childish' forums over here and the un-professional moderating of the PB forums which allow childish threads in the 'Off Topic' section and therefore make PB seem juvenile.

I'm not mentioning names or detailing things any further because it was in a private dev forum (which i didn't realise at the time). But i've politely asked them to stop and it has been left as that.

I guess it all depends on Fred's attitude to how the forums should be moderated. It's his baby, and it's up to him.

Also, the only reason i started this thread was to let people here know about EBasic which i also thought old IBasic users would be interested in.

If this thread isn't wanted then theres nothing stopping a mod from deleting it. :roll:

- EBasic, on the other hand ... posted by a 'partner developer' ...

AFAIK, Kale is NOT connected to EBASIC in any way, shape or form, nor receives profits from it. His only connection as a 'partner developer' is to Aurora.

Trond, those comments are not "bad mouthing". You can find the same type of comments of this forum.

Indeed. The stability issues with 4.0 is why many (like myself) are sticking with 3.94 until all the 4.0 issues get resolved. Threading is a known problem with 4.0, as is the opengl issues I have been reporting since the first Alpha of 4.0 was released, and they are still there in 4.01

Until 4.X reaches the stability and reliability of 3.94, I am sticking with 3.94.

Since Fred now has a full-time job and only does PB part-time, I imagine it will take him a lot longer to get the kinks out than it used to.

It isn't untrue, as you weren't able to see the thread! But certain users were badmouthing PB and it's development team.

It IS untrue, and I could read the thread just fine and I participated in the thread in question. Nobody badmouthed PB in any way.

They were also commenting on the 'childish' forums over here and the un-professional moderating of the PB forums which allow childish threads in the 'Off Topic' section and therefore make PB seem juvenile.

The comments on the "other" forums were on the behavior of you and a couple of others here, there was NEVER a bad comment made about PB or Fred.

But i've politely asked them to stop and it has been left as that.

Yeah, right... :roll: However, to humor you, Let's see... You create the problem, instigate it, then magically solve the problem. Sounds like what psychiatrists refer to as "hero syndrome".

Well then, time to say a word i guess.

How does the fact that a topic like this can exist in this forum reflect on us as a development team, or
on the PureBasic community as a whole ?

In my opinion, the only ones making a fool of themselves here are those that ranted
around about issues that are none of their concern. As you can count in the thread
these were just a few people.
Quite frankly, if people generalize from that to the whole community, then
they live in a very small world of prejudice and i feel sorry for them.
There are dumb people everywhere. I bet there are even some in the Iconic Wind forums.

Now, does jumping around, deleting any topic that mentiones another procuct
in anyway solve this problem ? In my opinion it doesn't. We try to keep this
an open forum, only deleting stuff that really needs it.
I don't see why a few people making fools of themselfes is a reason to delete the thread.
If you cannot handle the fact that there are a few dumb people around, then you should stay off the internet

We do not forbid talk about other products here, because it is our opinion
that people should know their options so they can decide what product is best for them.
As Fred used to say: "I like competition."
If it comes down to plain advertisement, we will step in of course, but you
can hardly call this thread an advertisement.
I don't keep a close eye on whats going on over at Iconic Wind, so i welcomed
this piece of information. I also trust Kale to not post this with any bad
intentions in mind... after all, he just recently spent a lot of time and work writing a PureBasic book.

To the people participating in this thread: (specifically Trond)
If you have a specific problem with Iconic Wind Software, any of their
products or the way they do buisness, i suggest you go to their forum to discuss this.
You won't find any real experts on the subject here, and shouting around half-truths
on all side helps no one. Besides, it is really none of our buisness which
IDE or compiler of theirs shares sourcecode and which doesn't.

To anyone from the Iconic Wind forum reading this:
If this thread is the only thing you read on this forum then you know nothing
about our community. So i ask you to not judge PureBasic, this community,
and especially not us as a development team.
If you have something PureBasic related to discuss, come over
here and we can do so and you can form an opinion of your own.


I have posted this before, but there is just soo much truth to it...



Now, lets all get back to whichever language we like best and do something productive for a change, shall we ?

Wow! That's a great post, Freak. Very well said!

There are dumb people everywhere. I bet there are even some in the Iconic Wind forums.

I'll have you know that I hang around both these and the Ionic Wind forums and therefore there are indeed dumb people in both forums!

No wait, that's not what I meant...

White Eagle wrote:It IS untrue, and I could read the thread just fine and I participated in the thread in question. Nobody badmouthed PB in any way.

What is your username over there?

Check out the avatar!!!

Course, I could be wrong there. Never was much of the detective inspector type!

srod wrote:Check out the avatar!!!

Course, I could be wrong there. Never was much of the detective inspector type!

Yeah i thought of that but they can be copied, if it is who i think it is and now confirmed through PM, White Eagle is not a partner dev so he wouldn't of been able to read the thread i refered to. So please White Eagle, stop talking about things you haven't read and know nothing about.

All i want from people on both sides is to stop slagging each other off, proffesionally and personally! Like what has said before all of these languages have good points and bad points as well as the odd limitation here and there, but does that matter?

White Eagle is not a partner dev so he wouldn't of been able to read the thread i refered to

Apologies, I thought you were linking to the other (now locked) thread. However, my comments about you still stand, because they are based on your actions and behavior.

All i want from people on both sides is to stop slagging each other off, proffesionally and personally!

I am still unsure what you thought could be gained by starting this whole mess? Surely you knew the commotion that would be caused by posting about EBASIC here based on the results of past threads that mentioned Paul?