PureBasic Forums - English

nospam wrote:I am assuming that Fred has any customers left after they've been thoroughly antagonised with the cop-outs, excuses, denials, fantastical musings and imaginings, the denigration of programming skills, personal insults and utter rudeness that are displayed in this thread.

Quite a bit of it coming from the originator of the thread. Just another example of the Dunning-Kruger effect. I believe someone already answered your question -

Oh, great. A complex environment with zero documentation. Where can I get a refund?

- didn't they?

Don't use a form designer myself; never have done.

However, I understand nospam's points in that the latest version of Purebasic is advertised as featuring an all new form designer with no mention of there being no docs as yet. Admittedly, mention of the designer at this stage on the main PB site is somewhat low-key which is fair enough, but it still can lead to people deciding to purchase PB expecting a fully rounded form designer with appropriate docs etc.

Now, I think it is also true to say that experienced PB users would rather have what looks to be an excellent designer a part of the PB package at this stage rather than the alternative of the old, massively incomplete, designer or even no designer at all. Polo's designer even lacking docs is still streets ahead of what was previously bundled up with the PB package. And beside's, Mr. Polo is always around answering questions and giving tips and advice regarding his product and I don't think we can ask much more than that.

Furthermore, there's a whole thread (43 pages, still counting) where a lot a questions had been answered by Polo himself.
Yeah, it's still not a documentation, but with some kind of "resourcefulness", you can use the Form Designer as it is (still a beta, and i'm personally not shocked by a beta software without documentation. Form Designer is not an exception)

oldBear wrote:I believe someone already answered your question -

Oh, great. A complex environment with zero documentation. Where can I get a refund?

- didn't they?

I haven't seen it. Show me.

nospam wrote:Your work is unquestionable, but BorisTheOld has a point. How would you feel if you went out and bought, say, a milk frother that came with a free coffee machine and all you got for a user guide was a thick tome all about the frother and not a mention of the coffee machine? How would you feel if a company representative, which is what you are whether you like it or not, said to you, "Now, seriously, if you're not happy, [use a coffee machine] that has documentation and wait till the next milk frother comes out..."?

@nospam: Your analogy of the milk frother and coffee machine is nice but wasn't it you who also posted this?

nospam wrote:

Polo wrote:There are plan to write documentation so that the Form Designer is easier to use, that should happen for next PB release

jesperbrannmark wrote:You can alter the form, you can choose to have event handler included or not etc...
You can go from code view to design view...
You can write code and do forms at the same time..

Thank you all very much. I'll play around with purebasic a little more and will probably buy the full version this afternoon.

So, from your former post you quoted the fact that you were told the documentation for the Form Designer was forthcoming and that you were going to test some things before deciding to buy PureBasic. You then buy PureBasic and complain that the Form Designer has no documentation and say you wanted a refund (or something). Seems like you had a case of amnesia there.


It would seem most here are in agreement that documentation for the Form Designer would be great (or simply a necessity) and that Polo has also done a great job with his contribution (all for free). If that's true then look for solutions to your problems instead of keeping others from assisting you over the rough spots you've encountered.

From your analogy you seem to be aware that a Form Designer was not something you paid for when you purchased PureBasic. It is included as a useful tool but there are no guarantees for it even though efforts are being made to integrate it into the IDE. Others such as myself may use a different tool to design forms or simply hand code them. Another free form designer which is also written in PureBasic is PureForm by gnozal.


The newest Form Designer was included in version 5.00 because it was written while version 5.00 was in beta and it was convenient to make it a part of the finished release. If there were more people being paid as part of the development team then things would naturally have been done in the manner that you and BorisTheOld described. There's only two people paid to do this and they accomplish a lot but only a few extraordinary people like to write documentation instead of improving the core product itself.


You said that you had a lot of experience using form designers for other languages and that you are more than a little familiar with programming. PureBasic is not perfect (although some would claim otherwise) but it is very good. I would hope you can become more familiar with the good things about what you have purchased without be disheartened by a few shortcomings.

nospam wrote:

oldBear wrote:I believe someone already answered your question -

Oh, great. A complex environment with zero documentation. Where can I get a refund?

- didn't they?

I haven't seen it. Show me.

nospam wrote:

Polo wrote:There are plan to write documentation so that the Form Designer is easier to use, that should happen for next PB release

Oh, great. A complex environment with zero documentation. Where can I get a refund?

juror wrote:Support@purebasic.com if that's not to complicated for you

oldBear wrote:

nospam wrote:

oldBear wrote:I believe someone already answered your question -

Oh, great. A complex environment with zero documentation. Where can I get a refund?

- didn't they?

I haven't seen it. Show me.

nospam wrote:

Polo wrote:There are plan to write documentation so that the Form Designer is easier to use, that should happen for next PB release

Oh, great. A complex environment with zero documentation. Where can I get a refund?

junior wrote:Support@purebasic.com if that's not to complicated for you

Rhetorical question.

HTH

Demivec wrote:From your analogy you seem to be aware that a Form Designer was not something you paid for when you purchased PureBasic.

That's false in relation to when the product was purchased. And it is false in relation to now owning the product now, because I was not advised that I was buying something I wasn't paying for.

nospam wrote:

Demivec wrote:From your analogy you seem to be aware that a Form Designer was not something you paid for when you purchased PureBasic.

That's false in relation to when the product was purchased. And it is false in relation to now owning the product now, because I was not advised that I was buying something I wasn't paying for.

Haven't you whined about it enough? Do you want a chorus of "Poor nospam. What a bad deal he got."?

Christ, either man up and accept it or do as someone else suggested and write to Fred.

oldBear wrote:

nospam wrote:

Demivec wrote:From your analogy you seem to be aware that a Form Designer was not something you paid for when you purchased PureBasic.

That's false in relation to when the product was purchased. And it is false in relation to now owning the product now, because I was not advised that I was buying something I wasn't paying for.

Haven't you whined about it enough? Do you want a chorus of "Poor nospam. What a bad deal he got."?

Christ, either man up and accept it or do as someone else suggested and write to Fred.

All nospam did was deny demivec's premise, which invalidates everything demivec assumed from it. Logic isn't your strong suit, huh?

nospam wrote:

Polo wrote:There are plan to write documentation so that the Form Designer is easier to use, that should happen for next PB release

Thank you all very much. I'll play around with purebasic a little more and will probably buy the full version this afternoon.

@nospam: You dived in knowing full well that the designer is as yet undocumented, and then you whine about it?

It's not like you missed that post - you quoted the guy!

Kadaitcha Man wrote: All nospam did was deny demivec's premise, which invalidates everything demivec assumed from it. Logic isn't your strong suit, huh?

This is great, you sign in the forums to become nospam's bitch? Priceless. You clearly have NO strong suit.

oldBear wrote:

Kadaitcha Man wrote: All nospam did was deny demivec's premise, which invalidates everything demivec assumed from it. Logic isn't your strong suit, huh?

This is great, you sign in the forums to become nospam's bitch? Priceless. You clearly have NO strong suit.

IKYABWAI

Lame away, lamer.

nospam wrote: IKYABWAI

Lame away, lamer.

Too much fun taunting the village idiot. But since you're so good at making a fool of yourself, no need for me to point it out.

Bye.

fromVB wrote:

nospam wrote:

Polo wrote:There are plan to write documentation so that the Form Designer is easier to use, that should happen for next PB release

Thank you all very much. I'll play around with purebasic a little more and will probably buy the full version this afternoon.

@nospam: You dived in knowing full well that the designer is as yet undocumented, and then you whine about it?

It's not like you missed that post - you quoted the guy!

Isn't this the entire point?