PureBasic Forums - English

the.weavster wrote: Microsoft/NOKIA have just been caught out posting shed loads of negative reviews for Samsung Galaxy's, iPhones and other hugely successful smartphones and also posting hundreds of positively glowing reviews for the Lumia's in a desperate attempt to make them sell. It's really sad to see a once ethical company like NOKIA grubbing around in the gutter like that but you can guess this is happening all the time now.

If you make a claim you need to proof it.

the.weavster wrote:Microsoft/NOKIA have just been caught out posting shed loads of negative reviews for Samsung Galaxy's, iPhones and other hugely successful smartphones and also posting hundreds of positively glowing reviews for the Lumia's in a desperate attempt to make them sell. It's really sad to see a once ethical company like NOKIA grubbing around in the gutter like that but you can guess this is happening all the time now.
The snake oil salesmen haven't gone anywhere.

Again, this is funny and contradicts your requirements for regulation?
Who caught them(if this really happened at all)? Regulators or consumers?
In this binary age, NOTHING can be hidden. Why would the ultimate purveyors of digital technology display such hubris thinking they are truly incognito?
When an ultra secret STUXNET worm can be tied back to its authors, do you really think a corporation is beyond reach?

the.weavster wrote:The alternative technology is 8 x more expensive not 8 x cheaper. I don't know why you're struggling it's really very easy to understand.

The argument of the true cost of a good is meaningless. What do you care? You only care if you can afford it and so does the supplier. The price is set to achieve maximum sales. Set too high, the demand drops and competition enters. Set too low, and the supplier risks lower profits and demand exceeding production capabilities and frustrated consumers and then again competition enters. Equilibrium is achieved naturally with only 2 entities. Take the playground see-saw. A regulator upsets the balance. This 3rd player stumbles trying to re-balance the see-saw, having to decide whether to join the supplier or consumer.

the.weavster wrote:It's not hysteria it's real life: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... bills.html

The idea of a price of goods causing deaths is incredibly silly and a red herring.
If someone died because they could not get heat, then blame all the world's hotels for not lowering their daily rates. I mean C'MON already?

Ah, daily mail, the bastion of journalism

I want to move to Norway..
I've had this tooth ache for about 3 years now in my wisdom tooth...

Capitalism MUST be regulated, or it forms monopolies ans suck the blood out of everyone.

Sometimes, (as in the US), capitalists run the entire society through their ugly president puppies,
and a people as stupid and one-dimensional as my two cats.

Finance tricks is one way of making money. Another way is to make weapons, and start war after
war to be able to deliver diesel fuel at $700/litre in Afgan, or hugely overpriced weapons to their
paid-for government friends.

I think the US has started 200 wars since WW2. Just to make money, nothing else.

That's not freedom to me, its beeing f*cked in the ass by wealthy idiots that laugh at you every
inch of the day.

utopiomania wrote:That's not freedom to me, its beeing f*cked in the ass by wealthy idiots that laugh at you every
inch of the day.

I think you're sounding like one of your cats, a bit one-dimensional . . .

utopiomania wrote:Capitalism MUST be regulated, or it forms monopolies ans suck the blood out of everyone.

Sometimes, (as in the US), capitalists run the entire society through their ugly president puppies, and a people as stupid and one-dimensional as my two cats.

Finance tricks is one way of making money. Another way is to make weapons, and start war after
war to be able to deliver diesel fuel at $700/litre in Afgan, or hugely overpriced weapons to their
paid-for government friends.

I think the US has started 200 wars since WW2. Just to make money, nothing else.

That's not freedom to me, its beeing f*cked in the ass by wealthy idiots that laugh at you every
inch of the day.

US foreign policy is not perfect and is rife with mistakes but the narrow-minded ignorance demonstrated by this post is mind boggling. Maybe Norway should take more of a role in promoting freedom around the world and we'll see how well you do. Not doing anything and complaining about what others are doing DOESN'T count.

Even at its worse capitalism is no where near as bad as what socialism is doing to Europe today (the real hardship hasn't even begun yet folks), or what communism is still doing to the N. Korean people.

It's easy to live in an illusion and sing the praises of socialism when the easy oil revenues flow but when that ends some day (and it will), you'll be singing another tune.

Moderator, time to close this one?

No need to close the topic. Better to not dignify obvious baiting statements or absurdity with reasoned responses.

USCode wrote:...
Even at its worse capitalism is no where near as bad as what socialism is doing to Europe today (the real hardship hasn't even begun yet folks), or what communism is still doing to the N. Korean people.
...

I think it isn't socialism that turns Europe down this days. It's the
growing capitalism influence after the end of the "cold war".
Nowadays whole countries are "toys" for "the finance market".
The way Europe went after 1989 was wrong, but the GB and the
US leaders (triggered by money) forced Europe to give up the idea
of real community for all, not only the rich.
"Money" and "market" are the only things which count today. Forget
people, especially the poor (Africa...). Just "steal" the resources all
over the world and make money with it. Thats their prime thinking.
Even here in Germany they are turning a working partnership between
working people and "money" to a "dictatorship" of the market. People
are just a cost factor. Hire them, fire them, forget them....

Good points Lord.
Be careful though to not confuse macro and micro economics in your use of terms.
In a broader scope(macro), the EU is most certainly suffering from a collectivist failure.
This is often viewed as socialist and in extreme cases communistic.
Free capitalism provides a means for all to recognize the risk-reward mantra.
Choosing not to compete, but instead to languish in courts and lines, asking for handouts, unsubstantiated loans, and price controls, are perilous steps to mediocrity and poverty.

On a micro scale, you are correct. Businesses and governments are not compassionate. Yet, this is not unique to any of the aforementioned models. Socialism and communism prey heavily on these emotions, but it is merely a lie. A devilish ponzi scheme. As such, time always reveals the evil of such a contract.

Do what you love and your payment is greater than gold or bread.

skywalk wrote:Do what you love and your payment is greater than gold or bread

... As if everybody have a minimum capital. How could you "do", express your talent and skills when you have nothing ? You can't do what you love, when you have to work simply to live. How could it be possible to ignore poverty, and just say "do what you love".

djes wrote:

skywalk wrote:Do what you love and your payment is greater than gold or bread

... As if everybody have a minimum capital. How could you "do", express your talent and skills when you have nothing ? You can't do what you love, when you have to work simply to live. How could it be possible to ignore poverty, and just say "do what you love".

Yes, djes. You keep us grounded with your empathy for those in hardship. I do not ignore, but instead learn and create and live humbly. I never force my will upon others. I prefer actions and deeds over mandates of charity. I would support a hundred Mother Theresa's but not one politician. Which are you?

skywalk wrote:

the.weavster wrote:Microsoft/NOKIA have just been caught out posting shed loads of negative reviews for Samsung Galaxy's, iPhones and other hugely successful smartphones and also posting hundreds of positively glowing reviews for the Lumia's in a desperate attempt to make them sell. It's really sad to see a once ethical company like NOKIA grubbing around in the gutter like that but you can guess this is happening all the time now.
The snake oil salesmen haven't gone anywhere.

Again, this is funny and contradicts your requirements for regulation?
Who caught them(if this really happened at all)? Regulators or consumers?

Maybe it did happen and that's indicative that you can't believe all the sh*t you read on the internet.
Maybe it didn't happen at all and that's also indicative that can't believe all the sh*t you read on the internet.
See why reading sh*t on the internet is no substitute for proper consumer law?

skywalk wrote:The argument of the true cost of a good is meaningless. What do you care? You only care if you can afford it and so does the supplier. The price is set to achieve maximum sales. Set too high, the demand drops and competition enters. Set too low, and the supplier risks lower profits and demand exceeding production capabilities and frustrated consumers and then again competition enters. Equilibrium is achieved naturally with only 2 entities. Take the playground see-saw. A regulator upsets the balance. This 3rd player stumbles trying to re-balance the see-saw, having to decide whether to join the supplier or consumer.

What happens when the equilibrium is created by not competing at all? Then you need a third party to upset the balance.

(Oh, btw shouldn't the price be set to achieve maximum profits not maximum sales?)

skywalk wrote:

the.weavster wrote:It's not hysteria it's real life: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... bills.html

The idea of a price of goods causing deaths is incredibly silly and a red herring.
If someone died because they could not get heat, then blame all the world's hotels for not lowering their daily rates. I mean C'MON already?

There you go again, yet another totally absurd and meaningless analogy.

the.weavster wrote:There you go again, yet another totally absurd and meaningless analogy.

I can think of many more if you like, but as you say, it is absurd. That IS my point.
But, if you insist on a meaning...hundreds of homeless sleep in the alleys of vacancies and are subject to exposure and hypothermia because the cost of the room exceeds their means.

the.weavster wrote:(Oh, btw shouldn't the price be set to achieve maximum profits not maximum sales?)

The invisible hand truly sets the price. Yes, profits are a motivation, but this is not a PhD thesis. Only a random off topic discussion. In some complicated cases, there are "loss leader" products sold merely to attract customers. How dare they do this? They practically sell at a loss if you buy nothing else. Alert the regulators.

skywalk wrote:

djes wrote:

skywalk wrote:Do what you love and your payment is greater than gold or bread

... As if everybody have a minimum capital. How could you "do", express your talent and skills when you have nothing ? You can't do what you love, when you have to work simply to live. How could it be possible to ignore poverty, and just say "do what you love".

Yes, djes. You keep us grounded with your empathy for those in hardship. I do not ignore, but instead learn and create and live humbly. I never force my will upon others. I prefer actions and deeds over mandates of charity. I would support a hundred Mother Theresa's but not one politician. Which are you?

As we are talking politics, I'm not talking for myself -only-. Politics is not about charity, it's about how to organise human society. I'm never talking about charity, because for me, in a clever society, charity should not exists -except for special people asking for it. Mother Theresa wouldn't have to do what she did if everybody had minimum rights at born, including roof, food (health) and education. That's all I'm asking. After that, who said I'm against action, or liberty ? Humans have two legs, two hands and a brain, and they're able to do a lot - if everything is OK- ! But we wouldn't be clever if we were not able to organise ourself to help others when needed. I do not like regulation more than you, but we are living in a building : natural building, human building. And to every building, there's natural limits, and so there's natural rules showing us the way. Theses rules are permitting ourself to grow without destroying everything, even if it's good sometimes to start over. So, let construct something strong and good, you know how it works the best...