The Pirate Bay case

[Rings]

You can't use cars or any other physical thing here since it simply doesn' t work.

Then should it be referred to as 'stealing'? The thing you've 'stolen' is still there.

You just spent a lot time and effort writing a book, you find a publisher who will print and sell your book for you. The book is a hit and soon money starts rolling in.

Suddenly another copy of your book appears only this one is an eBook and its being passed around freely, sales of your printed book start dropping off because now there a free version that people are reading instead of your paid for version.

So now you want to shut down public libraries too?


Historically if a musician wanted to make money they would have to play their musical instrument for an audience, if an actor wanted to make money they would have to get on stage and act. Being able to capture a performance on some medium and then sell it over and over again is a fairly recent thing.

Well it was fun while it lasted and it served the make a lot of the 'artists' very rich but it's beginning to look like the party's over and they might have to go back to performing for a living.

absolutly correct !!

[SFSxOI]

Looks like Pirate Bay filed their appeal... they sure seem confident about it.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news ... nction.ars

[rsts]

Snip
absolutly correct !!

If that's the case then it's Ok to use any copy of PB you can find on a torrent or whatever - or Fred should create new code for each copy of PB by hand? I do not understand the logic behind equating mechanized/electronic copies with actual performances.

Should the only way to enjoy music be to attend a concert? No movies, just live plays?

[Tipperton]

<withdrawn>

[Rings]

absolutly correct !!

Should the only way to enjoy music be to attend a concert? No movies, just live plays?

yes. and free copys for the concert visitors (like 'linkin park' did)
No overdubs, no untalented musicans.
beside that , all that crappy music industrie will die
no more talentshows, no dancing pussys without a voice on stage .
Okay, some problems for the movies.
it would be okay if the hollywood machinery would die,
- movies without heros and happy ends.

-what a sweet dream-

[netmaestro]

no dancing pussys without a voice on stage

Priceless!!

[the.weavster]

It is stealing plain and simple. You are taking someone's work without paying them for it.

And exactly how many times do you get paid for your 'work'?

You just spent a lot time and effort writing a book, you find a publisher who will print and sell your book for you. The book is a hit and soon money starts rolling in.

Suddenly another copy of your book appears only this one is an eBook and its being passed around freely, sales of your printed book start dropping off because now there a free version that people are reading instead of your paid for version.

So now you want to shut down public libraries too?

How on earth do you equate an example of your work being stolen instead of being paid for into closing libraries?

Read your own words. Those naughty librarians would be passing my book around freely, their dens of depravity must be shut down!

I think that not only do you support and condone piracy but that you are a pirate yourself and are so worried about loosing a valuable resource that helps you in your piracy that you can't even think straight or clearly.

Oh how I wish it were a valuable resource, unfortunately I find modern music and movies complete 5h1t3. For me surfing the Pirate Bay would be like wading through excrement.

I find the notion of being a pirate quite romantic though, maybe I should dress up appropriately so everyone knows it.

Not a single one of your arguments makes any sense.

Ooh, utopiomania faces a challenger to his position of definitive judgement maker.

[SFSxOI]

Its the distribution thats the piracy problem part. You can download all day long, but if you distribute it then thats the problem here. And thats what big content is saying in the Pirate Bay case, that Pirate Bay was facilitating that distribution, but they did it based upon a 'making available' argument - 'making available' has not been proven to be equal to infringement, although there have been cases where 'making available' was accepted as a valid argument. IP infringment laws do not include 'making available' without actual distribution equal to infringement, and thats what is so distrubing about the Pirate Bay case in that it allowed for the first time the argument from big content to say that 'making available' as a primary proof (without actual proof), and that is indeed disturbing because it opens the door for big content to say that about anything and never have to really prove it. You will notice that big contents war path focuses on file sharing and not posession, and thats because under IP protection laws its only piracy if you traffic, or distribute, and the reason they only are focusing on file sharing is because the only argument they have in every case has been 'making available' and they can say that with implied proof rather then actual proof and thus its a decision that can be swayed by argument rather then proof. But the question in that argument is if 'making available' equals infringement by actual distribution. I'm not on Pirate Bay's side, but this decision is dangerous and needs to be overturned because its going to affect everyone eventually.

[Tipperton]

<withdrawn>

[SFSxOI]

Now hold on a second here. You might have misunderstood what i was saying, and I can understand how you could do that when you color your preception with emotion coupled with how I intially posted. Although I did say initially what you quoted, I have changed my post to more accurately reflect what I actually intended to say. So I just wanted you to know that so you wouldn't think I changed the post to make your quote appear foolish or contrived. I apologize to you for causing you to draw a wrong impression upon which you stated your point.

Now, in terms of theft. If this verdict for the Pirate Bay case were to stand, it is dangerous because then it means, literally, every web site you access you have broken the law automatically because you did not receive explicit permission to download the content which is what you are doing when you access a web site. You download the graphics, the words, the basic structure, etc...every time you visit the site. And thats why this is a dangerous decision. Under this decision it means that your access here at PureBasic is unlawful (if this decision were applied) and you automatically became a pirate when you accessed the forums or site. It doesn't matter if its open to the public or not - according to the underlying theory in this decision, openly available does not imply permission, and that affects things like Google for example who provides links to various things and places on the 'net without explicit permission to do so. See, under this ruling, if it were applied, you just became a thief by visiting the PureBasic forums and that content is 'made available' by you because it exists in your browser cache...so if you wanted to join the ranks of the pirates then congratulations you got your wish (under this ruling). Essentially, this decision, makes everyone a thief (and allows big content to pick and choose who that want to prosecute next because now that they got their foot in the door with their 'making available' argument without proof of distribution it has become case law and thus it is now valid to accuse and prosecute without actual proof).

And i'm not a pea in any pod, theft is theft and no one here has disagreed with you that theft is theft. But being accused and prosecuted for theft simply because someone is allowed to say you did without any proof, its another entirely different matter, and thats exactly what this ruling will allow if it stands.

[pdwyer]

Its not the downloading thats piracy. Its the distribution thats the piracy part. You can download all day long, but if you distribute it then thats the problem.

I would have to dissagree with this.

Supply is created to fulfill demand, not the other way around. As long as there is demand the problem will not stop. When people whinge about whaling, it's not so much the hunter that throws the harpoon, its the people back home who buy the catch and create the market that prolongs the behaviour.

The question is, why is there so much demand? so much that download sites can sell advertising to people to put a sign up in front of the huge crowds? I mean, I'd like my movies with Japanese subtitles that downloads rarely have so the bought product is better but... the prices are exorbitent, segmented for for max catch, min fairness.

This is why I'm on the fense on this issue. Yes, what they do is theft. but I feel what the entertainment industry does is basic protection racketing which is also anti competitive and sometime illegal protests are called for to break up the problem...

Note: I don't download movies, our local DVD rental place has $25 per month subscription and they send two movies of our choice in the post at a time as many times as we want, they send the next batch when they get the first back and pay all the postage. we get all the subtitles and languages we want too. to buy, for $25, I could get 1 DVD, but I can watch 7-10 a month for that price

[SFSxOI]

@pdwyer

I changed the post...i did say that initially but its not what I intended to say really. I even disagree with it.

[pdwyer]

Pretty cool of you to admit that , a lot of people would doggedly defend their comments to the grave

[SFSxOI]

Well, what I really wanted to say was what I have changed the post to > "Its the distribution thats the piracy problem part. You can download all day long, but if you distribute it then thats the problem here."

It was early and not enough coffee, sorry bout that.

[the.weavster]

There is a big difference between libraries and electronic mass distribution and you know it

Don't presume to tell me what I do and don't know, I'll express my own thoughts and opinions.

You're just trying to come up with anything you think will justify your crime of stealing.

I don't feel the need to justify myself to anyone, I'll do what I please and I don't give a flying firkin what anybody thinks.

I pray for the day you are caught and punished appropriately.

How interesting that you would ask the sky pixie to punish me and not to make me repent.

Considering that you support, condone, and commit piracy, you deserve no better than to wallow in excrement, filth, and garbage.

Maybe that's what you think I deserve, but this is what I've got. Bummer eh?


You may or may not be interested to know the views of some of the artists: http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 43217.html