PureBasic Forums - English

Hmm.

the usa and bush politics dont have the right to kill this person!

The USA didn't kill him, the Iraqi people did. Although the Iraqi government is new, it is a democracy. Like any young democracy, they have a lot of work done to iron out problems, but under their current government and laws, Saddam was tried and found quilty. This was a justice that Saddam never extended to his victims.

What is sad is how much Iraq's new government has let itself be influenced by Iran, as was clearly demonstrated in the video with the executioners chanting the name of Moqtada al-Sadr and his father Baqr al-Sadr. Saddam's last words to them were "go to hell". This political and religious harrassment had no business being part of the excution.

There is by far much persons killed in any country all around the world but the US government did nothing even when the North Korea launched missile with nuclear warhead ...

And we (USA) did nothing in 2003 when for socio-economic reasons France massacred 14,802 of its elderly citizens. France slaughtered more people in a matter of months than Kim does in a year.

Considering that China has already said they will attack us if we take any military action against North Korea, we don't have a lot of choice in the matter, as it would quickly escalate into a Nuclear conflict with China. History has already proven that one cannot win a conventional ground war against North Korea.

Hmm as a European and esepcially as a German I must say that death penalty just contradicts with human rights and demorcracy.

I don't think any of us will live to see the day Germany will ever be taken seriously when offering an opinion on human rights.

Whatever someone did sentencing him/her to death brings the judge on the level of the subject.

This is a view held by many in the USA, too. Unfortunately, it has been my experience that most people who hold that view, do not truly believe in it when you start questioning them about it.

In order to keep Saddam from being hanged, would you have agreed to provide housing for him in your home for the rest of his life, and provide meals and health care for him for the rest of his life? Would you have guaranteed to supervise his every move in your home and to be legally responsible for any of his future actions that may harm another person?

Most people would not agree to that, at all. But in the same breath, even though they would never do it themselves, they expect everybody else in society to do it and pay for keeping incorrigible criminals incarcerated for the rest of their lives. Its a double standard for people with this view, they profess it, but they really don't believe it.

Putting a criminal to death isn't murder. Its an execution (pun not intended) of the sentence passed on him by the legal system of his country. If one does not want to get put to death, one should not commit crimes in ones country that makes them eligible for the death penalty.

Since I don't live in Iraq, its not really my place to say what laws are wrong or right for their new government. Considering forms of execution such as stoning and beheading that are still legal and routinely practiced in that part of the world, hanging imho would at least be preferred over stoning.

If you can't see the difference, then I feel sorry for you.

Consider the source, PB. Do you really expect anything different?

The present President Bush is trying to finish what his father started, and has made a big horrible mess of it all.

You think its bad now? Just wait. I am convinced our only reason for invading Iraq was to secure a staging ground for when we go after Iran and Syria. Now we will not have to worry about getting permission to use airspace. What is scary is if we make any move against Iran, Russia will most likely jump to their defense, and it would be inevitable that it would become a nuclear exchange at some point.

does the hanging of sadam solve the problem?

When a certain user from China was here promoting a warez version of PB and giving it out, did removing the kid solve the problem? Yes, I haven't seen him around here passing out free copies of PB.

When you have a problem, eliminating the person who is causing the problem also eliminates the problem.

However in the case of Saddam, we have a whole new series of problems to deal with. But we would be dealing with them whether he was executed or put in prison for the rest of his life.

It would be nice if all countries could get along, but it is never going to happen. The UN has been shown to be worthless when it comes to solving international conflicts. Many countries and cultures in the middle east do not even respect diplomacy, they only respect acts of force.

France is letting itself be overrun by Islamic extremists and this is starting to happen in the UK, Canada and slowly here in the USA where political correctness is destroying society as we know it.

With the "convert or die" and increasingly "convert and die" mentality of the extremists, people are not left with much of a choice what to do about it. Passivity breeds violence.

PB wrote:I should've ignored this thread, but I couldn't help myself.

Same here. I didn't even read all the posts

Brice Manuel, I am at a loss for words! I agree with everything you said!

for once I am happy to have not got everything right If you are ever in the UK, I will buy all your beer/drink of your choice for the duration! Hell, I am tempted to say sleep with my wife... but I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy lol

I should've ignored the news about this topic too, but I couldn't help myself. I think its a topic that moves people worldwide.

va!n wrote:I should've ignored the news about this topic too, but I couldn't help myself. I think its a topic that moves people worldwide.

NO! hell no... it was/IS a great topic! I'm just a little drunk to be constructive, perhaps even fair lol. But I am glad you posted about it, I've been wanting to vent my feelings on this subject for years! I just hope I haven't turned you into an enemy just because of my personal point of view I respect your opinion... I just hope you respect mine and a few others too?

@Brice Manuel: I can't find anything in your post to disagree with. But responses like mine and LuCiFeR[SD] will likely be in the minority.

@LuCiFeR[SD]:
i respect the personally opinion of each person here! At least, all feedbacks has a part of truth but some parts are more easy and others are more complicate to think about and share the same opinion ^^

LuCiFeR[SD] wrote:..... Hell, I am tempted to say sleep with my wife... but I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy lol

You saved first day of year !


This sentence should be ironed in the VS - about-Box .....
Happy new year!

Brice Manuel wrote:

Hmm as a European and esepcially as a German I must say that death penalty just contradicts with human rights and demorcracy.

I don't think any of us will live to see the day Germany will ever be taken seriously when offering an opinion on human rights.

Oh well. Let's bring democracy to Germany then, shall we?

It may not be on such a large scale as the apalling crimes of the Nazis in WWII, but in the history of every single country on the face of our planet you can and will discover atrocities, if you dig deep enough. Hiding them doesn't make them inexistant.

I'm not doing a list, just that much: The film missing (1982) is worth watching. And ask about the origin of the idea of the J in the passport of jewish people.

A few thoughts on extremism:
How do people become extremists? Yeah, maybe because they're nutters, if you want to believe that.
Or maybe getting extreme might be a reaction to something that's making their lives miserable. Remember the kid at school that always got picked on? The same kid that one day came to school with a fucking uzi, shooting anything that resembled his concept of an enemy?
Certainly a nutter, but if you'd have left him alone, do you think he'd have resolved to violence?

It's not just passivity itself, that breeds violence. It's agressivity and the passivity towards agressivity.

I see none of the posts above cared to mention the following facts:

1-United nation declared that iraq is invaded nation, and Saddam is captured by the usa, so he is a prisoner of war, he was in their hand till delivered for execution. This defies the international laws. so usa is the one responsible for his execution.

2-out of 51 wanted, there are 38 shia sect( the ruling party sect), none of those 38 sentenced to be executed.

3-prosecutors and judges are all from the sects that believed that they are punished by saddam and always wanted his execution. in real , the opponent is the judge. so no fare trial is established, To that it doesn't make sense to say that it is fare to execute saddam based on such thing. even though I believe that he made grave mistakes ,that doesn't make what they did to him right , if you believe that the out come to execute someone has to be based on a fare trial.

@Brice Manuel
nice posting, a lot of information...

one point i don't get...

Brice Manuel wrote:

Hmm as a European and esepcially as a German I must say that death penalty just contradicts with human rights and demorcracy.

I don't think any of us will live to see the day Germany will ever be taken seriously when offering an opinion on human rights.

what do you mean ?

I believe he is referring to the crimes of Nazi-Germany during WWII.

On a sidenote:

Senator Harry S. Truman, New York Times, June 24, 1941 wrote:If we see that Germany is winning we ought to help Russia and if Russia is winning we ought to help Germany, and that way let them kill as many as possible, although I don't want to see Hitler victorious under any circumstances. Neither of them thinks anything of their pledged word.

After that, the US "postponed" D-Day for two years, costing millions of lives. I think they broke a contract with the Soviets by doing that.

Stalin (mass murdering asshole) did think something of his "pledged word". The Yalta Pledge: The Soviets would attack the Japanese within three months after the end of WWII in Europe. (They did.)

Brice Manuel wrote:

There is by far much persons killed in any country all around the world but the US government did nothing even when the North Korea launched missile with nuclear warhead ...

And we (USA) did nothing in 2003 when for socio-economic reasons France massacred 14,802 of its elderly citizens. France slaughtered more people in a matter of months than Kim does in a year.

In 2003 there was a heat wave, causing 14 802 more deaths than normal. Surely France can control the weather. Especially with a certain huge country totally unwilling to accept anti-pollution agreements like the Kyoto protocol.

Putting a criminal to death isn't murder. Its an execution (pun not intended) of the sentence passed on him by the legal system of his country. If one does not want to get put to death, one should not commit crimes in ones country that makes them eligible for the death penalty.

While he did what he did (in many cases supported by the USA, I might as well mention, do your homework) he was president. From the Iraqi Constitution of 1990:
The President of the Revolutionary Command Council, the Vice-President, and the members enjoy full immunity. No measures can be taken against any of them without a priori permission of the Council.
From the Iraqi Constitution of 2004:
There shall be neither a crime, nor punishment, except by law in effect at the time the crime is committed.

chromaX wrote:I believe he is referring to the crimes of Nazi-Germany during WWII.

i thought so.
kind of rediculous, to think, 12 years of bullshit neutralize two thousand years of culture...