Forum section only for PB registered users?

Fluid Byte · Post by **Fluid Byte** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:34 pm

As many people here are releasing shareware or selling their software, it will become natural to talk about tips and techniques to avoid piracy, etc.

Pointless argument

A developer cracks, and uses cracked software, like any other user.

thefool · Post by **thefool** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:53 pm

Fluid Byte wrote: A developer cracks, and uses cracked software, like any other user.

Its much less likely that a fellow pb developer would crack your software...

But; i think having a forum with anticracking tips and so on is not pb-teams work. Of course looking at the source code would help in understanding how anticracking works; but i can say that any tip i post is not for direct copying. Its for learning, then you can build your own stuff upon it.

Heck i found a self-modifying code example and made it use a polymorphic encryption(every release the user gets are different.); and put a lot of anti disassembling macro's in it. Now if someone read the self modifying code example they couldn't use it for anything; except knowing that its self modifying, which they probably knew already.

Variation is a keyword in crack protection. whether you variate the code you find here or the program code itself on runtime (interesting idea; have it encrypt itself on runtime. Since its polymorphic you can go back again using the correct decryption method, but everytime you closed the program you would have a new exe. This could disturb a lot of beginners i guess

OFFTOPIC i know...)

But again; anticracking techniques are very interesting for many people, and i think it will only draw MORE attention to pb that its easy to use many of the tricks with inline assembly!

So even though I can see the advantages of having a closed forum, I hold my vote with the pb team, keep the forums open. For pb's sake! The increase in popularity will make it up for the illegal users.

So even though freak is a bit "only my opinion counts" 'ish, he gets my vote heh

ricardo · Post by **ricardo** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:42 pm

thefool wrote: So even though freak is a bit "only my opinion counts" 'ish, he gets my vote heh

The problem with that point of view (democracy, teocracy, dictatorial, etc) is that its useless for a forum or this kind of organization.

I dont see why i have to convice anybody (administrators or another users) of my point of view. I think that the only thing they must see is if another people here find it usefull (no mater if some not). I mean, if this need is common for SOME TYPE of PB coders.

*BTW the point of view that forums are not a democracy and are some open-window for potential users, are not the best one.
My personal opinion is that the forums are a service they bring to their customers and then, if the potential buyer find that the service are nice and helps to use the product, they will like to become buyers...
This is not very important, just want to say it because i feel there is something intrinsect wrong in the 'not democracy' point of view.
This forum are not a common forum, this forum is about a product and we are customers of this product. Thanks.

rsts · Post by **rsts** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:00 pm

Since you feel strongly there's such a need, why not extablish your own private forum somewhere and post a link to it or the relevant topics here?

If there's sufficient interest it will thrive.

cheers

Trond · Post by **Trond** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:56 pm

ricardo wrote:*BTW the point of view that forums are not a democracy and are some open-window for potential users, are not the best one.
My personal opinion is that the forums are a service they bring to their customers and then, if the potential buyer find that the service are nice and helps to use the product, they will like to become buyers...
This is not very important, just want to say it because i feel there is something intrinsect wrong in the 'not democracy' point of view.
This forum are not a common forum, this forum is about a product and we are customers of this product. Thanks.

I totally agree with freak that this is not and should not be a democracy. The seller must be the one who decides what to sell. Even if a lot of people want to buy the seller's suit he should be the one to take the final decision, and he must also take into consideration that without clothes he might not get so many new customers. Obviously it should be allowed for the customers to try to convince the seller into selling what they wants though, but again, the seller decides what he sells.

ricardo · Post by **ricardo** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:27 pm

rsts wrote:Since you feel strongly there's such a need, why not extablish your own private forum somewhere and post a link to it or the relevant topics here?

If there's sufficient interest it will thrive.

cheers

Im not PB seller.

There is a need for some PB customers, if PB seller can detect it okay, if not its okay for me. I dont have to do that, its crazy.

ricardo · Post by **ricardo** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:31 pm

Trond wrote:I totally agree with freak that this is not and should not be a democracy. The seller must be the one who decides what to sell. Even if a lot of people want to buy the seller's suit he should be the one to take the final decision, and he must also take into consideration that without clothes he might not get so many new customers. Obviously it should be allowed for the customers to try to convince the seller into selling what they wants though, but again, the seller decides what he sells.

You are 100% right.

The *only* thing that i was trying to point is that this is NOT a regular forum, but a CUSTOMER forum.

But, again, you are right. If the company that sells the software decide that they (for any reason) have not interest on give some kind of service, its okay.

The only thing is to have clear that this is not a folks community or a hobbiest club, but a community of customers.

Killswitch · Post by **Killswitch** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:42 pm

How about a system like the one on use on the DB forums? Newbie's posts are evaluated by mods for a certain period. Now, I can't say for sure how many new users post their first post each day - but it can't be many.

If a mod can check each new memebers first post (before it's actually added to the forum) to make sure it's alright, then fire off an automated message to that user if it's been rejected (just in case they are legit) then that should sort out the problem.

This'd put more work on the mods, of course, (if it could even be done) but they're bastards anyway, so it doesn't matter

Trond · Post by **Trond** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:09 pm

If there is a private forum about piracy protection that is visible to everyone, but readable only by customers:
As people have said in this topic, they would be slightly less inclined to buy PB. The only ones who would benefit are those who already paid for PB. The number of new customers will go down, unless:
- A lot of people registers PB to get access to the "secret" information.
- Crackers buy PB to get access to the "secret" information.
I don't think any of those would outweigh the number of people who don't purchase because they can't see the entire forums.

If there is a private forum about piracy protection that is invisible to anyone but customers:
Occassional visitors would not know about it, and would see less activity on the forums overall (since part of it is hidden). Only those who already purchased PB will benefit. Again, the number of new customers will go down.

Dare · Post by **Dare** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:23 pm

MY 2c is that:

A private forum would need to be privately run (eg, by someone on their private domain).

.. and ..

Both interested users would be hopeful of learning. Neither would know what to teach.

rsts · Post by **rsts** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:41 pm

ricardo wrote:
rsts wrote:Since you feel strongly there's such a need, why not extablish your own private forum somewhere and post a link to it or the relevant topics here?

If there's sufficient interest it will thrive.

cheers
Im not PB seller.

There is a need for some PB customers, if PB seller can detect it okay, if not its okay for me. I dont have to do that, its crazy.

But it seems you're the one who wants it, not the seller who seems to agree with you that it's a crazy idea.

cheers

Tipperton · Post by **Tipperton** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:17 pm

One thing you're all forgetting (and I know this from experience) such a section on the forum would add to the administrators/moderators work load since they'd have to grant access to a private section to each user that requests it and I've seen posts by them in other threads that say what time they have for these forums is already "stretched" to its limits.

Even if they wanted such a section, lack of time to administer it could easily make it not something they could do.

Fluid Byte · Post by **Fluid Byte** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:56 pm

I don't wanna spoil it but let's face it.

If you look at all the pros and contras for rsts' request in addtion to freaks comments the result is obvious...

There will be NO private forum section!

So it's worthless debating this anymore. Let this thread rest in peace. :roll:

Post by **Berikco** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:02 pm

freak wrote:...Otherwise, well your only chance is to convince Fred or Berikco and have them kick my butt ...

now thats a good idea, always wanted to do that

Dare · Post by **Dare** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:37 pm