PureBasic Forums - English

[Edited message above but in french ]
In fact, it's not for contradict the decision of FRED (Finally for me )
But just give our advice, like that, FRED can know what is the advice of his client and perhaps changing his idea, and dare to do something, he not dare before the advice... with this news informations
In fact..a little referendum
It's not simple to take decision, in the black....
Sometime it's usefull to know the general advice, for take new direction, but mainly the good direction for the actual clients..and mainly the new
It's not bad..that just can be usefull at my advice, obviouly

The problem is the clients pissing and moaning and demanding changes have no understanding of how each product actually works, or they would not be wasting the time making the requests.

If you really think Fred is a dumbass and has no idea what he is doing, then why are you using any of his products?

PureBasic is the LAST usable BASIC out there. Fred has outlasted ALL of the competition because he actually knows what he is doing.

If you are that unhappy with PureBasic, I am sure you can find another product to better suit your needs.

Finally...Something worth agreeing with.

netmaestro wrote:It's already two products each with its own licensing scheme, I don't see the point in talking about something that's been decided. Fred wouldn't consider for a moment any idea that would see the lifetime license for PureBasic rescinded. He just wouldn't, so my advice is forget it and embrace the reality.

Nicely put, netmaestro.

@Huron
Exactly!

@KCC
The approx. 12 people, who wants to change the PB lifetime license and/or wants to combine the two producs into a single package,
do NOT represent the entire PB community (fortunately).

Fred and the team has chosen the correct path. They know, what they're doing.

@Kcc :

i believe the good solution is to create a PB with base library, and sale each new or specific library.

KCC reinvents the Capitalist system

rich, will have a Super Basic with all libraries
the poor, weep desire, Facing the inaccessible codes for them on the Forum


in french :

KCC réinvente le systeme Capitaliste

les riches, auront un Super Basic avec toutes les librairies
les Pauvres ,pleurerons d'envies, devant des codes inaccessibles, pour eux , sur le Forum

@Dk_peter
I agree what you say, and never say it's what the community want.
Numerous choice of the team never is what the community want.
It's just another approach of the management of pb, for be the most just possible.

Win money for the team can eat, and continue to move..and users only pay for what he need, but pay sometime for support the team and his hard work
Furthermore, it's my advice, just my advice, an idea among many others..for give a long life to the team.
Sometime it's necessary to take decision much before the problem come, after is too late.
And sometime, it's also necessary to take hard, and unpopular decision for save something
In french they are a proverb who say : "for saving the arm, you must cut the hand"

@XXXXXX

The "famous" D...O, the king of the french forum, always already to laugh of the others, always sure of all what he say, who dare all, even if his hard sentences vex or hurts
Under the excuse of the liberty of speech...have no respect
They are a long time, i have not be attacked by you..
In fact exactly the contrary of the bahaviour of the members of this forum

Like usually you understand baddly my idea, and turn it like you want.
It's the reason why, i not lost my time to answer to the "king" this time and the others

In french :

Pour la traduc..tu te ...

Which competition actually does as you claim? I am genuinely interested.

I was thinking of Real Studio and QT.

> Fred has outlasted ALL of the competition because he actually knows what he is doing

And because he's passionate about it! Other Basics have died because
they were just commercial projects to make a buck. Fred actually uses
his language (the IDE is written in PureBasic!) and loves it, which is a
good thing for the rest of us.

IdeasVacuum wrote:I was thinking of Real Studio and QT.

I am not familiar with QT (link please?), but Real Studio is not a competitor of PureBasic as it does not produce native code for desktop platforms. Hence it can't work as you claim because it does not even work in the same way PureBasic does. From its roots in '98, Xojo/Real Studio was designed to compile basic code to another programming language, not native code.

The list of PB competitors is extremely small. And as of the end of 2013 you can only find them in the graveyard. The are dead. The exception being HotBasic, which is the only competitor still alive but nobody has ever given it any legitimate credibility.

Monkey can compile for Windows and Linux, although those capabilities are very limited. It does so by exporting the code and then compiling it with the C/C++ compiler.

Spider could theoretically do the same, but use PureBasic as a backend compiler, but there is no need since PB already exists and it would not make sense to use a less powerful product to write desktop software to compile with PureBasic. Since PureBasic is designed to compile to native code, it is not designed to export code to another language. This is why Spider was created.

Fred was very smart to make Spider a separate product, as this is the way the competition does it. Products that are designed to compile code from one language to another never compile to native code like PureBasic does. Two completely different products aimed at two completely different demographics. Having them separate is a win-win for everybody. There simply is no downside.

@ KCC
it was not an attack ..
why Move discussion of aggression who is not an ...

just a summary of what you are writting ....
if parts of Purebasic are paying ... then only those who have money have a complete product ...
other .. (most poor) ... will have their eyes to envy .... it is nevertheless clear.


it will create the disparity in the Forum
those who can .... those who can not


in French :

@KCC
ce n’était pas une attaque ..
pourquoi amener la discussion sur une agression qui n'en est pas une ...

juste un résumé de ce que tu ecris ....
si des partie de Purebasic sont payantes ... alors seul ceux qui ont de l'argent auront un produit complet ...
les autres .. (les plus Pauvres ) ... n'auront que leur yeux pour envier .... c'est pourtant clair .

ça va creer des diparitées sur le Forum
ceux qui peuvent
Ceux qui peuvent pas

Please stay focus on the topic, thanks

Kuron wrote:

IdeasVacuum wrote:I was thinking of Real Studio and QT.

I am not familiar with QT (link please?), but Real Studio is not a competitor of PureBasic as it does not produce native code for desktop platforms. Hence it can't work as you claim because it does not even work in the same way PureBasic does. From its roots in '98, Xojo/Real Studio was designed to compile basic code to another programming language, not native code.

The list of PB competitors is extremely small. And as of the end of 2013 you can only find them in the graveyard. The are dead. The exception being HotBasic, which is the only competitor still alive but nobody has ever given it any legitimate credibility.

Monkey can compile for Windows and Linux, although those capabilities are very limited. It does so by exporting the code and then compiling it with the C/C++ compiler.

Spider could theoretically do the same, but use PureBasic as a backend compiler, but there is no need since PB already exists and it would not make sense to use a less powerful product to write desktop software to compile with PureBasic. Since PureBasic is designed to compile to native code, it is not designed to export code to another language. This is why Spider was created.

Fred was very smart to make Spider a separate product, as this is the way the competition does it. Products that are designed to compile code from one language to another never compile to native code like PureBasic does. Two completely different products aimed at two completely different demographics. Having them separate is a win-win for everybody. There simply is no downside.

I see you have your opinion but putting others down only because we stick to our own guns is not nice. Look, I can express my opinion and Fred is not obliged to agree as this is not some kind of suggestions/bug topic. I don't know how much you've been into business but I know a few things and this is the reason why I would merge the two products. First of all PB is a pretty much a one man show, so splitting up to do two separate IDE's, compilers etc. is simply not efficient. Second. Since SpiderBasic for now is a clone of PB in many ways potential customers could be confused as to what is what. Some will see the IDE and think it's some kind of a PB extension. It would also make more sense to make a SpiderBasic as an extension to PB simply because that would mean more money flowing into Fred's pockets i.e. PB+SpiderBasic ext combo. There are many reasons for and against but as far as I can tell Fred has made his decision so good luck to him. Kuron, there is no need to fiercely protect something that has been already set in stone. Let us just have a nice discussion and celebrate the release of a new product. Have a good day!

[Edit] Sorry Fred

PB wrote:And because he's passionate about it! Other Basics have died because
they were just commercial projects to make a buck. Fred actually uses
his language (the IDE is written in PureBasic!) and loves it, which is a
good thing for the rest of us.

How many legitimate competitors were there?

Only BlitzMax compiled for all three desktop OSes. It could not hold a candle to PB feature-wise for application development, plus it was 32-bit only. It hasn't seen an upgrade in ages and does not work properly on Linux or OS X and needs a major overhaul, especially for the GUI system and audio system. Because of the developer moving to another new product (yet again), BlitzMax will likely NOT be brought up to current standards.

FreeBasic was not a legitimate competitor as it did not target OS X, but since it did target DOS, at least it did support three platforms. It pretty much died when the original developer abandoned ship. It was not a commercial product and people are just now trying to compile it for 64-bit support.

MiniBASIC was not a legitimate competitor as it was Windows only and 32-bit only. It died when the author was put in prison.

PowerBASIC was not a legitimate competitor as it was Windows (and DOS) only and 32-bit only, besides being 15 years behind industry standards. The author died in November of 2012. The product has NOT seen any legitimate updates since then. Only a buggy patch which had bugs in it that the beta team had reported and were never fixed. The company has dissolved into a Charlie Foxtrot over the past year.

HotBasic is not a legitimate competitor, as it only compiles for Windows and Linux and it is 32-bit only. It rarely sees an update.

That is it for compiled BASICs. There are not any other legitimate compiled BASICs. Out of the ones above only BlitzMax came close to matching PureBasic in features, but even it fell short and was not a legitimate competitor.


PureBasic has succeeded because of Fred. He is a skilled coder, he keeps up with new technology, he keeps PureBasic current (look how quick GTK3 was added). Fred cares about his product and cares about his users. Unlike other developers, Fred has not backtracked on his free updates and come up with various schemes to nickel and dime his users. He has not released things like the new GUI designer (I realize he did not write it) as a paid addon. When he needed additional income, he went out and got a job instead of reneging on the free updates. Fred is a genuinely nice guy and does not talk bad about the competition or the people behind the competition, and generally does not allow it on the forums. Fred brought in help when he needed it, and Freak has added a lot to the language. Not to mention the people working on the GUI designer and the 3D side of things. Fred was smart enough to realize when he could no longer do it alone. When Fred discontinued support of the Amiga version of PureBasic, he released the source.

PuerBasic is the last compiled BASIC standing and Fred is the last compiled BASIC developer standing. What works in our favor is Fred is young and will be around for a long time. Fred and PureBasic have a very long life ahead of them. Looking back on my past ten years with PureBasic, it is amazing to see where it is now. I can't wait to see where it is 10 years from now. Rock on, Fred & PureBasic!

Olby wrote:I see you have your opinion but putting others down only because we stick to our own guns is not nice.

I have not put anybody down, but have suggested people not put PureBasic down, especially when they have a lack of understanding of what they are trying to discuss. Unless you want to dumb down PureBasic, Spider would not work as an addon/extension. Two completely different technologies that come into play.

I am not familiar with QT (link please?)

http://qt.digia.com/
It seems most people are talking of PB rivals being some form of Basic -fair enough. I personally see the programming language as my tool kit, the means to the end. So, I will use whatever I think is the best spanner that I can afford to undo those pesky nuts. Sir Clive Sinclair once tried to explain a data recorder spec to Sir Alan Sugar. "I don't care if they have rubber bands in them" replied Sugar, "as long as they work".
I think PB is the best spanner for me. It's not just the language, but this very forum, one of the best if not the best. Nevertheless, if something came along from another company that was clearly far better for my purposes, then I would jump ship -and so I think would everybody else.

Fred wrote:Please stay focus on the topic, thanks

It's very difficult when the subject is your future, your health, etc ...
For somebody of us, you are more than a little "bill gates"
And it's human, when i read some news, i can't prevent me to be affraid ...
The experience show to me, it's not the persons who have the most need...who dare ask ..
And i'm just always affaid, not because you are not competent, but just because for you the money is not very important, that the life catch you
I think the goal of all is you have a normal, long and nice life, it's the minimum deal against the full years of pleasure you give to us.
Without you, this forum never exist, this friends never know, the pleasure of all the day, never i meet all this MASTERS , and all that ...it's more than a license...

Reassure you...i'm always also tightwad
But i just hope, that if a day, the situation is not good, you say to us, much before it's too late
When the moral is go out....nothing works..and all stop..to much often definitively

You see..i listen you...i stop the discussion.. but i'm forced to answer you, it's the minimum