PureBasic Forums - English

proforma wrote:Well with BlitzMax, it should have affected maybe six months, but not three years of work. Even right now, he is working on code for Blitz3D and isn't working on BlitzMax as much. He should be putting all effort towards BlitzMax right now instead of doing work on blitz 3d which sounds like its not dying any time soon, so BlitzMax must really have a higher price because of that.

I don't agree - BlitzMax is just a rumor not a product that has been released... I can wait for BlitzMax for another 2 - 3 years or longer, as long as Mark update BlitzPlus and Blitz3D regular.

But we maybe should move this discussion to the Blitz Community?

In 2 / 3 years it will be an outdated product cause windows longhorn will be in the market, using DX9 has a GUI and API...

Excuse the rant...

Proforma, where are you getting your information about Blitz Max pricing? I'd be mighty interested, since I'm the Blitz support guy and even I don't know -- and neither does Mark yet, to the best of my knowledge. Are these real facts, or just some you've pulled out of your... um... well... I mean... thin air? Or is it, as I suspect, just wild speculation presented as fact?

Also, you were complaining about the lack of updates to Blitz 3D, then in your next post say he should be working solely on Blitz Max (for which there is no official timescale, and which he has no obligation to produce by any particular deadline). The recent updates simply add a couple of very frequently requested features, and once released he can get back to the main job, Blitz Max, keeping most existing users happy for a while.

Rewriting an entire compiler and every associated library/module (written in the Blitz Max language itself) is not a trivial task, especially when you also have real life to contend with. This isn't Microsoft we're talking about!

In reply to the original poster, Blitz Max will of course not mean an end to PB -- both will have their place, and I certainly will continue to use both; it just depends what is most suitable at the time for any given job.

Fred & co: sorry for ranting about Blitz here, but Blitz became the topic in hand...

Just to clarify: PB rocks!

OT:
hmm.. James Boyd using PureBasic..
I wonder if Mark's using PureBasic too.. lol

For some applications, he might very well be!

I don't understand why everyone thinks usage of Blitz and Pure are mutually exclusive. Blitz for more advanced game stuff, PB for everything else. Seems they can both play nice together to me. They are both usable and affordable with thriving support communities..

I've been a member of the PureBasic community for about 10 months now and I've seen the forum membership double in that short time. I'd say 2003 was one of PB's better years if I had to guess

hmm.. James Boyd using PureBasic..
I wonder if Mark's using PureBasic too.. lol

Perhaps still not now, but surely for PB 4.0.

hmm.. James Boyd using PureBasic..

Well, I've been using it since late 2000 (and see your Docs/Acknowledgements), so this is hardly earth-shattering news...

I don't believe Mark uses PB at all, but Karbon makes a lot of sense there... the two complement each other very well indeed. I prefer Blitz's syntax and overall consistency, and I have a *lot* of faith in Mark's way of doing things, but PB is very useful indeed as well!

Hi-Toro wrote:Excuse the rant...
Proforma, where are you getting your information about Blitz Max pricing? I'd be mighty interested, since I'm the Blitz support guy and even I don't know -- and neither does Mark yet, to the best of my knowledge. Are these real facts, or just some you've pulled out of your... um... well... I mean... thin air? Or is it, as I suspect, just wild speculation presented as fact?

I thought I made it ***VERY*** clear that I was speculating on the price of BlitzMax based on the fact that he is currently supporting Blitz 3D and Blitz Plus, if he is supporting both and BlitzMax is coming out as well and he is going to support that, this seems to me that there will be a higher price for BlitzMax. I never said this part was fact, you took it as such.

Also, you were complaining about the lack of updates to Blitz 3D, then in your next post say he should be working solely on Blitz Max (for which there is no official timescale, and which he has no obligation to produce by any particular deadline). The recent updates simply add a couple of very frequently requested features, and once released he can get back to the main job, Blitz Max, keeping most existing users happy for a while.

When he is working on BlitzMax then I can understand the lack of updates for Blitz 3D and Blitz Plus, but when you haven't done nothing (and his latest worklogs show that on BlitzMax and have an 80 percent done on the compiler for only two platforms in three years, it kind of tells you something).

BlitzMax has a long way to go and with no 3D at launch that makes it even longer to go. He is currently working on Blitz 3D (which if he was going to drop he would not be working on Blitz 3D, would he?)

Rewriting an entire compiler and every associated library/module (written in the Blitz Max language itself) is not a trivial task, especially when you also have real life to contend with. This isn't Microsoft we're talking about!

Its taken him three years to do a compiler that shouldn't have taken him that long. In other words he hasn't been working on Blitz stuff all that much and it shows. I am not saying he is Microsoft and he is only one person, but taking 3 years just to only get 80 percent of the compiler done and no 2D or 3D yet and only a couple of updates on Blitz 3D or Blitz plus, and no updates to Maplet at all well he must have not been that productive and took a couple of years off. There sure is a ton of time missing.

I really don't know if BlitzMax will be out this year from what you are saying, looks like its going to be 2005.

Well, well, well... Seems like I sturred up some muck here!

Hello (original poster here) all:

To answer some of the questions and comments here: No, I am not a paid promoter of Blitz. If I were, I'm sure my post would have been different. For one thing, I mentioned that I actually prefer PB overall. And for another thing, I am expressing genuine concern over the future of PB.

If this is Fred's "hobby", then more power to him and I think he is doing an outstanding job considering that he is not able to devote 100% of his time to Pure (If he could, I'm sure PB would be a much different - better - product).

Anyways, in many ways, Pure is better than Blitz...ways that even Mark Sibly would have to concede at this time: PB->API interfacing, compactness and speed. But in other ways, Blitz is the winner in my opinion. The syntax of Pure is, forgive me Fred, a bit more difficult to learn than Blitz. That is, many of the command names are very long and\or spelled incorrectly. This is the heart of any language! We won't even talk about how diabolically convoluted C++ is, but let's just say that PB could use a "rethinking" of command names.

And the main point of my post was to ask if anyone thought PB would be ready for BMax when it finally does arrive, because at that time PB's usefullness will be in question: What would we need it for if BMax has the API connectivity, compactness, speed, easy-to-learn command set (including pointers) and Mark's fulltime devotion to it? What will PB have to offer us then that BMax won't already possess?

Someone also said that not much was written with BlitzPlus. Granted, most of the programs being written are being written in B3D, because 3D is the 'flavor of the month'. The ones that use a GUI usually end up using one of the many GUI libraries written in Blitz. So there is not much need for B+ in that area (3D). But it seems like every time I log onto Blitz, there are at least 1 or 2 new programs being released (some commercial), so programs ARE being written in Blitz, albeit mostly 3D. PB's opening page brags of no such programs being written, although I'm sure SOMEBODY is doing it.

Well, whatever. I use both programs, for their strengths. BMax may change this. I don't know. We'll see.

I truly hope that version 4 of PB is an ass-kicker (in many many ways) and that the manual is FINALLY finished in a top notch manner. Good luck!

Russell

That is, many of the command names are very long and\or spelled incorrectly. This is the heart of any language! We won't even talk about how diabolically convoluted C++ is, but let's just say that PB could use a "rethinking" of command names.

8O A Re-thinking? In what way? I find the syntax and command names very readable. Which ones are spelt wrong?

Amiga5k wrote:Well, well, well... Seems like I sturred up some muck here!

Objective achieved? Feel good?

I really shouldn't drag this out, but...

Its taken him three years to do a compiler that shouldn't have taken him that long

How long should it have taken, given that he is under no obligation to meet any arbitrary deadline whatsoever? Do you have any idea what else the guy's been doing in the meantime (such as attending university) as well as dealing with other issues that are actually important to him, if not to you?

Blitz Max will be ready when it's ready; Pure Basic 4.00 will be ready when it's ready. These guys have real lives to deal with, and these things take time, sometimes much longer than any of us -- the authors included -- would like.

Agreed.

And this thread does nothing for either basic. Fred should kill it.

I want to know the mispelled commands right now to correct them ! 8O

BTW, I can't understand this discussion when talking from 2 products which try to bring to the programmer (all of you, folks) the best tool to develop with. So what ? I hope than BlitzMax will be a good product, so it will really push every other language programmers to do their best to compete with it. Did I ever mentionned than I learned programming with BlitzBasic 2 ? I have a lot of respect for Mark and if possible, I don't want to have to read such silly things about that.

Thanks to Hi-Toro for clearing the things, it was necessary

Yeah, it does baffle me a little when people pitch Blitz against PB; people who use both nearly always remark at how well they complement each other. Competition is good, but the two shouldn't be set 'against' each other. Dark Basic is the one true enemy!