PureBasic Forums - English

I agree with Benhood, on the surface. But on the other hand I never new you got a "how to" book with VC++, VB. You even have to buy ther MSDN, so you can have built in help ?? PureBasic already offers built in help.

I think what needs to be done is some 3rd party commercial support for published material, almost along the lines Paul (reelmedia) has done. But purchasable. This isn't odd at all. Hacking your way into programming is OK, but it produces hacked code, not very well documented code, bad programming structure, bad naming convention etc... So the only solution I see is someone Publishing an online $9.99 "How-To-Master purebasic in 24hrs" or "Coding with Codemonger" . I'm certainly not going to buy it, but a beginner to BASIC might wan't it. Not everything has to be Free, although it is good right now because the community is still growing. I'll tell you what I would buy though, is an expert manual for PureBasic that has tutorials for getting started with assembly and some other low level stuff that isn't directly related to BASIC but is reachable from PureBasic. That is something I'm more interesed in.

Ok I post sometimes really long and boring posts, so I'll stop now.

Yes, a agree about this 3de party commercila support.

The best books in the ATARI GFA days where written by other ppl, not by GFA.
Sjouke Hamstra wrote a nice GFA book that days, maybe i can mail him to see if he is intrested in writing a PB book

Codemonger wrote: "Coding with Codemonger"

Where can I buy it ? Amazon ?

I guess that's like my book..... Mailing with Dontmailme

Even if nobody wants to hear it, here my two cents:

WAKE UP!

There will be nobody that writes a commercial book for a language like PureBasic. (at least for the next 2 or 3 years...)
The reason for that is:

PUREBASIC IS A MOVING TARGET

No one that writes for the DUMMY series or LEARN IN 24 HOURS series will write a book about a language that has no finished core.

And that is because it's all about reputation, and the writers have a reputation to loose.
Also, if you want to buy a book and you can't use parts of this book (because a lot of stuff changed) you don't buy it.

Even users seem to not have the drive to write stuff for a moving target, in the long run.

Example:
I started to gain access on CVS and looked through the docs and also found mistakes and I changed it.
But while I wrote some stuff on my computer for PureBasic a new version came out and changed some things I was writing about.
Than I realized it does not make sense at all to write stuff, because while you are writing in your spare time, with every new version of PureBasic you have to look through your text and watch out if it was effected - and than change it. With PureBasic this seems to be a never ending story...

Think about it 8O

coding like codemonger?

new verb: codemonging with purebasic

so, is this a hint that i should use my meagre writing skills and write up a tutorial / guide / textbook to make a little money? hmm... i wonder for how much it should sell... and how quickly it would be available on the p2p networks... (which, effectively, makes it non-profitable)

fsw wrote:WAKE UP!

8O OK I'm awake!, so now what ?!

I don't think a commercial book is that important at the moment.... What is important is the User Guide, Reference and Examples are complete, work and are clear for the beginner .......

But unless somebody chip's in with some docs skills do we want PB development to stop whilst the docs are brought up to date ? and then do we all want to wait for a new version to appear and wait again for the docs to catch up ???

If I knew the language as well as some on here I would be happy to chip in with some docs/example writing..... All I could offer at this stage though is a Beginners viewpoint which would be invaluable to the docs writers......

For all the posts in this thread, each of us could of all wrote a tutorial for a command in purebasic to help this guy out 8O

I think for the most part Paul has a lot covered on his site for basic tutorials and such.

http://www.reelmediaproductions.com/pb

Yeah FSW has a good point. But I don't think PB is a hacker language. To make it legit, all you would need is a good commercial book. A book doesn't have to be about specific commands it could also be about structure, expressions, assignment operators, commenting + documentation, program flow, accessing windows api, and many other things not directly related to PB. But instead using PB as a platform to introduce these topics. Sort of reverse thinking. Anyway I'm too lazy to write a book, and FSW is right most other users don't have the inclination to either.

I have old programming books from way back explaining low level windows, it's not the windows API what I use but it explains how the memory structure works and how windows communicates and how threads work etc ... so it not always about the commands.

dontmailme do you know why LibertyBasic is more known and more sold as PureBasic?

1.) it's longer on the market
2.) you can buy books about it

Don't forget: PureBasic is a commercial endeavour - not freeware.

fsw wrote:dontmailme do you know why LibertyBasic is more known and more sold as PureBasic?

1.) it's longer on the market
2.) you can buy books about it

Don't forget: PureBasic is a commercial endeavour - not freeware.

And your point is ?

Behnood wrote:and it is unblivable for me that how you still didn't do anything to improve its documentation that can increase your selling very much.

Im agree.
A mature product MUST have a mature documentation.
Otherwise ppl will think that its some kind of hobbiest development and not an stable product.

And, lack of documentation = less sales, no question about it.

dontmailme wrote:

fsw wrote:dontmailme do you know why LibertyBasic is more known and more sold as PureBasic?

1.) it's longer on the market
2.) you can buy books about it

Don't forget: PureBasic is a commercial endeavour - not freeware.

And your point is ?

This is exactly my point:

ricardo wrote:

Behnood wrote:and it is unblivable for me that how you still didn't do anything to improve its documentation that can increase your selling very much.

Im agree.
A mature product MUST have a mature documentation.
Otherwise ppl will think that its some kind of hobbiest development and not an stable product.

And, lack of documentation = less sales, no question about it.

LibertyBasic is from the technology point of view not as good as PureBasic - no doubt about it.
But still more people use/know about it...

Well, I purchased PureBasic this morning and have been reading,reading,reading,reading..... The help system is a rather decent product. When I began using the visual designer and went to use help, there was no help file....I did find the visual designer web page that had a more recent build that included help. This was helpful. However, I can start to design these screens and have figured out the process for code generation and where this code is saved. I've loaded these files and have compiled and great I do have the gui window appear with gadgets, etc. Now..........I have to figure out,how do I tie this all together to working code. What is the best way to verify data that is entered into these fields, Do I have conditional routines to check each field, etc. What is the best way to switch between one window and another, what objects are inherited......

I did find the user guide in progress and went through that in about 40 minutes. Had to stop when I noticed it was finished.

I like what I see, but I am working overtime to learn how all this works.....could I pay additional $20.00 for comprehensive tutorials!!!! I'd gladly pay for it!!!!

No-one needs to thank me. I wanted to help Fred out because I feel the same as most people here - a reference manual is not enough, decent tutorials and a user manual would be really helpful. Unfortunately life got in the way.

People don't need to "help" - they could write their own commercial book and sell it if they wanted. I suppose they could even offer Fred their services for a fee.

fsw makes a good point about the language moving. However, I think for the most part there are not so many changes that the initial version of the user guide does not still hold true. The speed that additions are made to the libraries could be a big problem in keeping up to date though.

I guess for people who want to learn "programming", i.e. not specific to PureBasic, there are some general purpose books which teach you things like program structure, flow, design and technique. But a dedicated PB book would be a Good Thing (tm).

luke101 wrote:I am really excited about buying this software buy there seems to be no way I can learn the language without going to the forums..Does Pure basic have any books I can buy or any online documentation online that shows the basic and advance topics on pure basic?

I hate to say this, but this is really a hobby project that is used by some of us to make money either on the side or as a full-time job. Before anybody even think to flame me, read some of Fred's replies/posts in the last year (a simple search on the forums), his responses to feature request of common basic features, and some not-so-common. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but lack of formal documentation (besides small help file included) need to be taken into consideration as well.

So I stand by my comment, when I say, PureBasic is a hobby project. The money paid for it helps keep Fred interested in his hobby.. I'm beginning to think that Fred would like some sort of financial investors so this can be taken seriously? If that would happen, you would start adding in common features? I donno...

I don't understand the concept of a "hobbyist's programming language".. PureBasic is perfectly viable for commercial projects! I've written several applications that I've sold. Paul over at Reel Media Productions has written many pieces of commercial software in PB as well.

All that has nothing to do with the documentation as I agree it needs work.. However, I came from nearly zero windows programming experience to developing a release-quality application (small as it may have been) in 2 weeks with PB. I used the forum and the smarts of the good people here, the resources site and the help documentation.

There is no such thing as too much documentation and PB (as everything) will always be a work in progress.

Doot!