Memory techniques for the faux superhuman!

[Keya]

How many products have i promoted??? even mentioned??? Zero, correct.
and again, what on Earth is your problem!???!?!?!?!? far out!!! nobodys forcing you to do anything

[tj1010]

How many products have i promoted??? but again, what on Earth is your problem!???!?!?!?!? far out!!!

Because you're promoting a memory technique at least 1,200 years old living in a world full of people who can barely retain information when it's one of the biggest niche markets in existence right now with no results and massive scrutiny from the scientific community..

Your post -WILL- lead to people spending money when they go try and want faster results because it simply doesn't work resulting in desperation.. The exact same psychology and game-theory used for other markets..

Am I the bad person for pointing out this is really just marketing snake oil even if there aren't back-links or brand names? Can I make a post about practicing day trading in Ethiopia to solve poverty or wearing extra cologne to solve social-rejection in tight spaces?

[Demivec]

@Keya: Outside of the method I mentioned to you (the Major system), I never really learned a method for memorization outside of rote repetition.

The Major system I learned in my mid-twenties and found it to be interesting and I use it for items that I don't recall often but are often important, like account numbers or passwords and the like.

I have used the 'memory palaces' idea but never liked it much and never really used it for anything useful. I did give it a serious tryout though.

Fortunately for me I do very well with rote memorization. I tend to remember things presented as sounds, pictures, numbers, or simply ideas well. I do horribly at the memorization of names. I think this is due to a lack of an implicit meaning in most names. I usually cure that by associating a particular and often peculiar meaning with the name to assist me.

I have been working through a coding of a type of flashcard program for my own personal use and possibly general use by others (in the future). I know others have designed similar things, though I haven't used any of them. I think I can include elements that haven't been thought of that I at least would find useful. My goal would be to make rote memorization at least a little more interesting (still rote though ).


I think the observation you made that 'normal' people can remember a lot of things is of course true, otherwise people wouldn't have gotten this far . It helps to know a little bit how your own personal memory can be increased as well as improving the recall of those memories.

It basically boils down to figuring out what you memorize easily and well and using that to help you with things that aren't so easily memorized. For instance if audio memory is your thing and not images, you can record yourself describing images and then listen to the recording. There are probably and endless variety of ways to do such things to help your own memory.


A note of reality is the fact that memorization is useless if there is no understanding of what was memorized. An example that comes to mind for a generic case is that of a parrot, or a computer. Being able to spit out memorized facts or figures is useless if you don't know what to do with them.

[tj1010]

@Keya: Outside of the method I mentioned to you (the Major system), I never really learned a method for memorization outside of rote repetition.

The Major system I learned in my mid-twenties and found it to be interesting and I use it for items that I don't recall often but are often important, like account numbers or passwords and the like.

I have used the 'memory palaces' idea but never liked it much and never really used it for anything useful. I did give it a serious tryout though.

Fortunately for me I do very well with rote memorization. I tend to remember things presented as sounds, pictures, numbers, or simply ideas well. I do horribly at the memorization of names. I think this is due to a lack of an implicit meaning in most names. I usually cure that by associating a particular and often peculiar meaning with the name to assist me.

I have been working through a coding of a type of flashcard program for my own personal use and possibly general use by others (in the future). I know others have designed similar things, though I haven't used any of them. I think I can include elements that haven't been thought of that I at least would find useful. My goal would be to make rote memorization at least a little more interesting (still rote though ).


I think the observation you made that 'normal' people can remember a lot of things is of course true, otherwise people wouldn't have gotten this far . It helps to know a little bit how your own personal memory can be increased as well as improving the recall of those memories.

It basically boils down to figuring out what you memorize easily and well and using that to help you with things that aren't so easily memorized. For instance if audio memory is your thing and not images, you can record yourself describing images and then listen to the recording. There are probably and endless variety of ways to do such things to help your own memory.


A note of reality is the fact that memorization is useless if there is no understanding of what was memorized. An example that comes to mind for a generic case is that of a parrot, or a computer. Being able to spit out memorized facts or figures is useless if you don't know what to do with them.

Rote learning is a learning technique which avoids understanding the inner complexities and inferences of the subject that is being learned and instead focuses on memorizing the material so that it can be recalled by the learner exactly the way it was read or heard. In other words, it is learning "just for the test".

Rote learning is sometimes disparaged with the derogative terms parrot fashion, regurgitation or mugging because one who engages in rote learning may give the wrong impression of having understood what they have written or said.

K12, The Arab Education Summit, and most of the scientific community are riding in the troll boat with me..

Burden of proof.. Huge poverty problem because peoples intelligence is inadequate for integration where the methods even pre-date the dark age.. Huge market using said methods exclusively shown statistically and through credited scrutiny to not be effective..

I'll keep pointing out that this is misleading, but this time different analogy: Like telling poor people the bible is going to solve their problems if they go to the church and give to the offering dish being passed around.

[Keya]

tj1010,

Like telling poor people the bible is going to solve their problems if they go to the church and give to the offering dish being passed around.

AGAIN (4TH TIME) -- YOU are the only one talking about any products/paying for any of this. Unbelievable. With absolutely nothing to contribute, it doesn't matter what is said, as long as you destroy this thread with your rhetoric you're happy. That says a lot about you, and it also means I won't be saying anything back to you anymore. Peace and goodbye.

[Demivec]

K12, The Arab Education Summit, and most of the scientific community are riding in the troll boat with me..

Burden of proof.. Huge poverty problem because peoples intelligence is inadequate for integration where the methods even pre-date the dark age.. Huge market using said methods exclusively shown statistically and through credited scrutiny to not be effective..

I'll keep pointing out that this is misleading, but this time different analogy: Like telling poor people the bible is going to solve their problems if they go to the church and give to the offering dish being passed around.

@tj1010: I am not sure how you want to tie together the various quotes you posted. Are you saying you are for/against rote learning?

I am not sure what you and your associates are in the troll boat for.

What is your 'Burden of proof' related to?

What is it that is misleading that you keep harping on?

I'll ignore the analogy, it doesn't seem to have a place here.

Do you actually have anything to contribute concerning helpful ways to memorize things?

[tj1010]

It's been proven for decades that not even spacial repetition methods actually teach you things. It's all the same as cramming some methods just cheat long-term by exploiting your metered memory span to deliver delayed reminders.

Read about the original research by the polish doctors who created SuperMemo. They even admit that spatial repetition is just forcing abstract knowledge to stay active in your brain. They've done the most thorough research on the subject of plasticity and learning to date.

Rote or spacial repetition aren't going to make someone who couldn't do right-angle geometry learn topology. All the big companies advertising right now are fake and people who give in to these methods are naturally going to end up there paying for products when it doesn't work using free resources..

I'm not sure how criticizing something with proven facts is so incomprehensible.. Is it that I just don't agree with what is said and that's not expected? I simply see even suggesting this stuff turns lives around as free advertising..

[Demivec]

Rote or spacial repetition aren't going to make someone who couldn't do right-angle geometry learn topology. All the big companies advertising right now are fake and people who give in to these methods are naturally going to end up there paying for products when it doesn't work using free resources..

I'm not sure how criticizing something with proven facts is so incomprehensible.. Is it that I just don't agree with what is said and that's not expected? I simply see even suggesting this stuff turns lives around as free advertising..

@tj1010:

Let's review a couple of things (with calm voices):

• Your proven facts all seem to relate to learning or acquiring understanding.
  
  Your opinions all seem to be against advertising and selling of products that claim to be easy fixes instead of someone facing the reality that sometimes even hard work won't make a difference.
  
  What is so incomprehensible is that you posted a lot of messages that don't have anything to do with the subject of this thread and you wonder why nobody is singing your praises.

The subject of the thread deals with memorization techniques.

This makes the majority of your posts off-topic. I don't have anything against your opinions or what you do or do not agree with. I definitely have nothing against you. Go start your own thread and make your soapbox stand there.


The ability to remember lays a foundation for learning. I am glad that Keya started this thread and I consider it useful in relation to code I am writing. If you (or others) have anything to share regarding memory techniques that have helped you I would be interested to read it.

[tj1010]

Every one of my posts was regarding memory optimization which is entirely what the title and OP are about..

Authorities on the subject of the thread even say it's not real and have the research and science to prove it.

It's cramming.. Nobody is using it to learn skills or knowledge which is 100% of it's purpose..

OP presented it literally as something that will change your life for the better.. I criticized it because I've known about the science behind plasticity for most of my life and know it's currently one of the largest niche markets..

[Demivec]

It's cramming.. Nobody is using it to learn skills or knowledge which is 100% of it's purpose..

@tj1010: One of the things I mentioned as a use for improving memory skills involved flashcards.

Flashcards are a often used method of rote memorization. Things that I think are useful to memorize and that benefit from improved memory skills (including even rote memorization) are things that are fundamental facts. Most areas of knowledge include such fundamental facts: for math, the multiplication tables, axioms, or formulas; for language it may include vocabulary, and grammar; for chemistry, the periodic table.

Even the strict memorization of a text or quote is useful so that it can later be pondered for meaning and used. Many of the former uses of memory are less needful today (not less important) as they can be done away with by using computers and handheld devices. Why memorize when you can simply google it when needed? For autodidactic learners such as yourself and I, there are still many things to commit to memory even though there is no 'test' to pass. I commit many things such as songs, poems, speeches, and scripture to memory. Other things are committed to memory to avoid the often frequent references to charts and tables as well as having to reconstruct such references from formulas and theories.


@Keya: One of the things I have found helpful is similar to memory use with computers. That involves some form of chunking the information into groups that can be memorized as a unit. The example of the Major System involves doing this. Similar uses involve using similar characteristics of items. This can work with spatial memory also by putting a group of things in the same 'room'. I used this technique to remember the gender articles for nouns (in certain languages), those with a masculine article went in one room, those with feminine articles went in another room, and those with a neuter article when in a third. I related this to computer storage by having one bit to indicate which 'room' something was in, instead of the full description attached to each item (think of all the memory space that would be saved ).

I know this is not a memory technique per se, but I've benefited from spacing rote memorization to longer periods of time. I've done this more or less naturally but I realize it is also a studied form of memorization.

When I was younger I regular played 'memory games' with my family that frequently involved memorizing a random list of things that were associated with sequential letters of the alphabet (played on long trips). The list of items were repeated in order and an additional item was added (then it was another player's turn). If a mistake was made in recalling an item, the player was out. The game ended when only one player was left. Games typically ended after 20 to 40 items. It was one of many ways that I developed simple memory skills.

I was curious, what kinds of things are you going to memorize for your family to amaze them at Christmas time?

[Keya]

this isn't how i taught myself blah blah blah i know all the scientific facts blah blah blah i dont care if it makes things easier to remember, its not learning blah blah blah i dont care if this cost you $0, im telling you to stop buying it because its not how i do things blah blah blah

Ok, that's great, thankyou for your constructive feedback.

I was curious, what kinds of things are you going to memorize for your family to amaze them at Christmas time?

Phone numbers and DOBs of my entire extended family (the latter of which ive always been especially bad at!), and i've already successfully got down all the DOBs ... two months early lol Phone numbers next, but i wanted to start with DOB being just 6 digits.
I would also like to do an on-the-spot demo where i get each person to name a few shopping list items with one person writing them all down and then later that day i'll recite them all . I'd like to increase my main loci to 50 by then (i think 30 is all i really need but i really want 50 for some reason lol). I dont think i need any more. It's Christmas Day though so i won't be turning it into a class heehee
But im still not as fast as i'd like to be, obviously that just needs more practice time. I can see why it quickly becomes an automatic skill rather than having to think about it
According to tj1010 this is bad though because i have to "LEARN NOT MEMORIZE" the DOBs and phone numbers... (how his logic applies to lists - which is what this is mostly about - i dont know). But it's working for me, even if he despises me for it.

[Demivec]

But im still not as fast as i'd like to be, obviously that just needs more practice time. I can see why it quickly becomes an automatic skill rather than having to think about it
According to tj1010 this is bad though because i have to "LEARN NOT MEMORIZE" the DOBs and phone numbers... (how his logic applies to lists - which is what this is mostly about - i dont know). But it's working for me, even if he despises me for it.

It still strikes me as funny that you have to learn the technique to memorize, then memorize the common elements of it (such as useful imagery) to make it easier to do without so much thinking on your part. It is kind-of circular when you think about it. It does facilitate the speed of remembering things later after you have invested a little effort.

I have often constructed simple drill programs to test me on elements of a memorization technique, like the loci you mentioned. Its fun to develop the loci to make them easy to visualize while also keeping in mind the potential uses for them, such as the types of recall you would like to perform (such as sequential). It is kind of like developing a video game in your mind, or more accurately, for your mind.