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This one says it all...

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2013/06/28

i am still can't adapt my solidified brain to win 7 , the desktop folders icons are strange, there is no net trafic lights, the way we go from folder to folder, and many many tiny differences accumulate to make me stick with win xp. MS should make 2 flavours of windows 9: the same core but different GUI, first the gui of windows xp exactly 100%, the second have the gui of whatever they want. so the people choose the car shape and color they want with the same internal engine. why they force all the people to walk obediently on a track designed by mostly a teen 15 years old ???!!

Frankly, the core engine of Win7 is definitely better than Windows XP. And I don't mind the Win7 GUI in general. But there are a few strange things... for example, the lack of an 'up' button in file selectors. The strange control panel (making me work much harder to find any setting), and editing the start menu seems to be a bit more complicated than necessary. Still, Win7 does the job, even if I had to move a few apps to a VirtualBox VM Windows XP to keep them running, as they would no longer run on Windows 7 x64.

Win8, on the other hand, seems to be a bit senseless... Yeah, it's all about touch, but that doesn't mean old applications need to be thrown away (except for making additional money). IMHO all that Win8 should have done is add an application that would (full screen) take over the machine, but leave everything else in place. There is little to no need to access the 'advanced classic settings' from a touchpad environment, so I just cannot understand why Microsoft opted for the opposite solution and tries to move everything desktop into the touch environment. Why not restrict that to all relevant parts?

I can live with the useless touch interface. I can live with the stupid tiles. I can live with not being able to find the proper settings. I can live without my Aero glass environment. I can live without a start button (hey, I'll install a third party tool, that does the job). My biggest gripe is the colour scheme.

Yep. In every Windows AFAIK (well, except perhaps 2.x) active and inactive windows have different border colours, and borders have a colour that differs from the colour of the rest of the window. In Win8, it's hard to figure out what is your active application / window, and the colours are 'wham-bam-smash-into-your-face'. And you know what? All 'advanced desktop settings' have disappeared, including those that would allow me to select other border colours.

Yes. I'm a user. That doesn't mean I need to be laughed at.

The other thing is the price. I have no problem buying Win8 licenses. But not at a silly 100+ bucks price point for an OEM package that I have to buy yet again when my hardware fails. Why would I upgrade any of my old PC's for their remaining lifespan? OEM (or any tied to hardware packs) should be way cheaper, perhaps around the $25 pricepoint. I would then upgrade my hardware, even in spite of aging and failure. Now? Not a chance. The day Windows XP is no longer supported, I'm going to tell my family members it's either Linux from now on, or cough up a few bucks. I feel like a jerk, but I'm not going to spend yet another 100+ bucks on an old PC that's pretty much only being used for a little browsing and light gaming.

Windows 8 could have been great. Windows 8.1 could have been even better. I'm expecting to keep running Windows (7) on my primary machine because I have too many apps that I use that require Windows. Perhaps I'll build a new machine for my wife running Windows 8, and perhaps I'll also keep the home server on Windows (some server apps that I use require Windows, alas) but that's it. (Hmm. I could try to obtain some student licenses now that my kids go to mid level school, if anyone can explain to me why suddenly Windows 8 is only 14 bucks when you're 11 years old, then please tell me.)

I've always been a Windows user. I will be for yet another couple of years. But not until eternity.

End of novel

heartbone wrote:It seems this UBUNTU OS is a much better alternative than Windows 8 (unless you depend on Microsoft Windows only software)
because it's fast, user friendly, and extremely low cost.

Instead of buying an expensive laptop, a used one running UBUNTU should do the job for most everyone.
(web browsing, e-mail, social apps, shopping)

I used Ubuntu for a long time but I think Canonical have lost the plot in the same way Microsoft has. I really don't like Unity; I don't like the side bar, I don't like the way menus are detached from the windows, I don't like the way the window control buttons have been moved to the left and what's more I think Unity feels slow and unresponsive. As for Ubuntu's software center, I could perform three reboots in the time it takes that to load. Recent versions of Ubuntu have also had issues with my broadcom b4311 wifi card and for some reason it doesn't shut my laptop down properly either. These are issues I didn't have with older versions.

I've done a lot of distro-hopping in the last 12 months and for me there are three stand out distros depending on what you want as a base:
For an Ubuntu based distro I'd recommend Bodhi (none of the issues I've mentioned with above are present in Bodhi)
for an Arch Linux base try Manjaro (OpenBox version)
and for Debian I'd go for CrunchBang (#!).

I'd also recommend OpenBox or Enlightenment over Unity, KDE or Gnome which are really quite heavy. LXDE and XFCE are probably somewhere in the middle but I don't really see any reason to choose them over the first two I mentioned.

I'm using #! on my old laptop and it's lovely and brisk, all the plugins and codecs you're likely to want are included, wifi works otb, the debian repositories are choc-a-bloc with good stuff and there's a really helpful forum too. The default wallpapers are a bit dark though, I did have to lighten it up.

Although my laptop is 6 years old I have installed a SSD, #! boots up in seconds and shut down is almost instant.

blueznl wrote:if anyone can explain to me why suddenly Windows 8 is only 14 bucks when you're 11 years old, then please tell me.)

Like a drug dealer they want you hooked young, for a price you can't refuse. Then when you know nothing except Windows they'll take however much they want when they want because you need it ;p

The student versions of Office give away the entire suite for next to nothing. But other companies do the same thing, with even more expensive software. If they can get you hooked in or trained in their application at school/higher education they hope they have you hooked in for when you start a job and think that you don't have enough time, will power or brain power to retrain to another package.

blueznl wrote:...But not until eternity. End of novel

One of the best books I've ever read: The End of Eternity

> the lack of an 'up' button in file selectors

As a side-note, due to outcry they brought that back for Win 8.

the.weavster wrote: I used Ubuntu for a long time but I think Canonical have lost the plot in the same way Microsoft has. I really don't like Unity; I don't like the side bar, I don't like the way menus are detached from the windows, I don't like the way the window control buttons have been moved to the left and what's more I think Unity feels slow and unresponsive. As for Ubuntu's software center, I could perform three reboots in the time it takes that to load. Recent versions of Ubuntu have also had issues with my broadcom b4311 wifi card and for some reason it doesn't shut my laptop down properly either. These are issues I didn't have with older versions.

It was a bit diffiicult to install on my youngest daughter's computer.
I had to resort to making a USB image of the LiveCD to get past disc installation errors,
but after the install there have been no hardware problems.
If it were Windows 8 being loaded on her DELL Optiplex GX 280 desktop hardware, I doubt if the install
would have been as successful.
UBUNTU may seem slow compared to other Linuxes but it feels fast compared to XP and Vista.

Yes getting used to the style of drop down menus being detached from the active wIndow is strange, but that is a small issue compared to dealing with a dumbed-down smartphone desktop interface.

Perhaps the current UBUNTU is not 100% to your liking, but it is still very, very good.
The past few days I have been using it more than Windows and it has been a great replacement.
I really like the side bar as it replaces my XP toolbar, the toolbar functionality that was removed in Vista.

What could possibly be wrong with always available icons that can be single clicked to start an application?

If you still run XP, then create a toobar from a folder populated with shortcuts and/or folders, and dock it to the side of your desktop screen.
Now that is some very handy functionality that I've used for years and that I really miss in later versions of Windows.
Heck yes, I love that Unity sidebar!

Now the word charm brings to mind small bits of jewelery that little girls collect.
Is Microsoft blatantly trying to appeal to females?
No matter what, it seems that all that a charm does is launch other programs.
Fancy icons is not enough to induce me to use the OS.
AFAIK the toolbar/sidebar is the best expression of that concept ever made.

How many times can Microsoft repackage an on switch with heavy marketing to convince the consumer that they have a better way to start programs?
And why do their improvements seem to remove desired functionality like the navigate up one directory level button in the file selector, the Start button, and the Toolbars?

I've done a lot of distro-hopping in the last 12 months and for me there are three stand out distros depending on what you want as a base:
For an Ubuntu based distro I'd recommend Bodhi (none of the issues I've mentioned with above are present in Bodhi)
for an Arch Linux base try Manjaro (OpenBox version)
and for Debian I'd go for CrunchBang (#!).

I'd also recommend OpenBox or Enlightenment over Unity, KDE or Gnome which are really quite heavy. LXDE and XFCE are probably somewhere in the middle but I don't really see any reason to choose them over the first two I mentioned.

I'm using #! on my old laptop and it's lovely and brisk, all the plugins and codecs you're likely to want are included, wifi works otb, the debian repositories are choc-a-bloc with good stuff and there's a really helpful forum too. The default wallpapers are a bit dark though, I did have to lighten it up.

Although my laptop is 6 years old I have installed a SSD, #! boots up in seconds and shut down is almost instant.

Thanks for the information.
I may look at the others, but for now I'm sticking with the UBUNTU OS
until another Linux distribution becomes dominant.

While using UBUNTU I miss the Windows Taskbar the most.
Still UBUNTU is much better than WIndows 8 and that is the comparison which is important for me.

I may be a bit slow, but I do try to figure things out.

Perhaps the charms are icons for the apps that M$ wants us to collect on the Charms Bar?

Consumer Marketing 101 : Demand Creation


Gotta catch them all!

heartbone wrote:What could possibly be wrong with always available icons that can be single clicked to start an application?

On a netbook or laptop it's wasted screen space. With #! you start your most common applications by pressing the windows key in combination with a letter, e.g Win+w launches the default browser. Right-clicking on the taskbar or pressing Win+Space brings up a menu with all your apps similar to the menu you'd get from Window's start button.

heartbone wrote:I may look at the others, but for now I'm sticking with the UBUNTU OS
until another Linux distribution becomes dominant.

Since Ubuntu changed to Unity Linux Mint has become the dominant distribution.

Bodhi is an Ubuntu based distribution but it uses Enlightenment instead of Unity, not only is Enlightenment much faster than Unity but it gives you a taskbar and quick launchers without taking up two edges of the screen.

Why not use Unetbootin to create a LiveUSB and give it a try?

the.weavster wrote:

heartbone wrote:What could possibly be wrong with always available icons that can be single clicked to start an application?

On a netbook or laptop it's wasted screen space. With #! you start your most common applications by pressing the windows key in combination with a letter, e.g Win+w launches the default browser. Right-clicking on the taskbar or pressing Win+Space brings up a menu with all your apps similar to the menu you'd get from Window's start button.

There's a well done auto-hide feature for that sidebar if that desktop space is an issue.
With today's extra wide displays, that desktop space use is not much of a problem for the vast majority of users.
Again, anything more than a single mouse click to launch an application is excessive and unnecessary.

heartbone wrote:I may look at the others, but for now I'm sticking with the UBUNTU OS
until another Linux distribution becomes dominant.

Since Ubuntu changed to Unity Linux Mint has become the dominant distribution.

So far I can't find anything to verify that.

Bodhi is an Ubuntu based distribution but it uses Enlightenment instead of Unity, not only is Enlightenment much faster than Unity but it gives you a taskbar and quick launchers without taking up two edges of the screen.

Why not use Unetbootin to create a LiveUSB and give it a try?

For one, I just loaded this Linux version and am learning it.
There is no rush, I'll file it on the to do list for when I get the time.

I am growing to appreciate the Unity sidebar even more as I am starting to grok how the Windows taskbar functionality has been incorporated into it.
Perhaps I don't really miss the taskbar after all.
And I really like the way it handles multiple Firefox windows.
Excellent.

IMO the old Windows XP Toolbar (and now the Unity sidebar), is the best expression of the program icon concept ever executed.

If you still run XP, then create a new Toolbar (right mouse click on the Windows Taskbar and select Toolbars > New Toolbar... from the popup)
from a folder populated with program shortcuts and/or folders, and then drag it to the side of your desktop screen to dock it.
Below is a screenshot of the rightmost 150 pixels of my desktop.



Displayed are three Toolbars.
The top one is a Toolbar of the My Computer window, the middle one is my Stuff partition, the bottom is a games shortcut folder.
(Notice how Microsoft nicely setup the Toolbar environment and removed the arrows from the shortcut icons?)
A Toolbar can have large or small icons, display a title or not.
They can be docked by dragging together.
From the desktop, all of the folders and programs on the Toolbar are always instantly accessible with a single mouse click.
This is in addition to any desktop shortcuts and the start button.
Now that is some very handy functionality that I've used for years, which I really miss in later versions of Windows.
Perhaps the Charms Bar could restore it, but not for me.

heartbone wrote:Now the word charm brings to mind small bits of jewelery that little girls collect.
Is Microsoft blatantly trying to appeal to females?
No matter what, it seems that all that a charm does is launch other programs.
Fancy icons is not enough to induce me to use the OS.
AFAIK the toolbar/sidebar is the best expression of that concept ever made.

I suspect that it's so the marketing department can use the phrase "works like a charm" - which has a much better ring to it than "works like a shortcut"

heartbone wrote:

the.weavster wrote:

heartbone wrote:I may look at the others, but for now I'm sticking with the UBUNTU OS
until another Linux distribution becomes dominant.

Since Ubuntu changed to Unity Linux Mint has become the dominant distribution.

So far I can't find anything to verify that.

You may take a look into DistroWatch's Top 100 rank list of Linux distributions. Beginning with 2011 Linux Mint has taken the first place...

Shardik wrote: You may take a look into DistroWatch's Top 100 rank list of Linux distributions. Beginning with 2011 Linux Mint has taken the first place...

erm, a "page hit ranking" is not how many people who use a distribution truth be told, this slashdot poll is probably more accurate than that page hits per day. but what you've posted is certainly not definitive proof of mint being Number one.