PureBasic Forums - English

marc_256 wrote:Are there big working (commercial programs) written and developed in PB ?

I worked on a very large project (compiled files > 40gig total) that was originally done in C (not c++) they wanted to modernize. I bid, and won; they didn't ask what I'd use -- 1/2 thru the project, they asked, balked, then fell in love with it; once I had it converted, they took over maintenance.

It would be interesting to know how that conversation went

C++ is nice if you have a team, money to pay them, and they all know how types and allocation work. Otherwise it's not deadline friendly, even with a framework..

I have a game published on Intel, and a HTML5-based Android/IOS dev tool that are 100% PB, except for the HTML5, Xcode, and NDK stuff.

I also have SEO and niche-marketing tools in PB, in portable GIT repos, but they are owned by vendors under NDA.

I actually learned the hard way why small groups and indies should uses well-supported managed code, as a system shock engine developer many ISOs ago. Also as a PLC programmer in manufacturing in my twenties where I was the one coder in two plants where PLC stamps were modified and flashed every 72 hours to tens of thousands of controllers..

Zach wrote:It would be interesting to know how that conversation went

it helps to know C, apparently, a lot of people are comfortable with C++ but not C. Once you get into how the original source was written, and their style, it's pretty simple to convert; it becomes almost 2nd nature to read a line in C and re-write it in PB.

The hardest part was keeping the files separated (via dll's) to keep aspects of the code grouped together.

It's time consuming, grunt work; not glamorous at all.

marc_256 wrote:Are there big working (commercial programs) written and developed in PB ?

Our main program product is now entirely written in PureBasic. It's a rather niche application for garden enthusiasts but significant in that area (try Googling "plant database software"). Originally coded in VB6, replaced by the PB version this year with many existing users updating to it.

Having rejected several other Basic variations, I was on the verge of attempting a rewrite in C++ but found PB was much better suited to our requirements. See the bottom of this page for a credit to PureBasic - www.deeproot.co.uk/plantbase_status.html

Fred wrote:It's a common mistake to always push back the release to add a "killer thing without which the software worth nothing". Your priority when you do a new software is to actually ship it, even if it's not as feature complete as you wanted first. The reason is simple: you need user feedback to get you in the right path, as your first version won't probably be perfect.

That is so true - very wise words!

Funny enough, Plant Base is also known as PB

Fred wrote:Funny enough, Plant Base is also known as PB

Yes, that's right - even since when it was only used in-house, a long time ago. Another co-incidence is that we have always used a similar type of licensing. Overall PureBasic has been a very good fit for our little business

jassing wrote:

Zach wrote:It would be interesting to know how that conversation went

it helps to know C, apparently, a lot of people are comfortable with C++ but not C. Once you get into how the original source was written, and their style, it's pretty simple to convert; it becomes almost 2nd nature to read a line in C and re-write it in PB.

The hardest part was keeping the files separated (via dll's) to keep aspects of the code grouped together.

It's time consuming, grunt work; not glamorous at all.

I meant the actual conversation with the developers, not the code "conversion".

Hi,

thanks again for all your answers (posts),
it gives me the needed energy here to continue ...

nice to here about all these projects.

Marc,

Zach wrote: I meant the actual conversation with the developers, not the code "conversion".

I didn't record the calls, and the emails are long difficult to follow out of context.

Basically it went "We really like what you've shown us so far, what did you do it in?" "purebasic" "What? that old language? that's not very modern" "No, it's a recent version, nothing old" "Why do you think we should pay you for something written in basic?" "It's not really your grade school basic from 20 years ago, it's a modern robust event driven language" "We would have preferred you used something else" "You should have mentioned that in your specs or initial discussions" "You should probably stop now while we discuss the direction you've choosen" "OK, but I didn't do anything against the contract or any email, phone call, etc, so this is just a personal bias you have because the langauge contains the world 'basic' -- if I had said E++ you'd have probably said "wow, what's that?" your calll; I've stopped"
<insert lots of discussion about how I can be sued for breach of contract, how I was not making a lot of money (actually very little, I was doing it to help a friend); and then "well; let the results speak for themselves, once i'm done if the compiled version is to your liking you can have the source; any competent developer can be up to speed in under a week; and I bet they'll love it"
<timline: a week goes by>"Josh,thanks for turning me on to PB, this is really slick, I just wish it....<insert any perceived deficiency due to how it was doing in your last favourite langauge>

Good story, Jassing!

Interesting...

I can't believe they would have the balls to bring up suing for breach of contract though; I would have thought it would be you suing them instead. Being that they were arguing over something not specified in the first place

Did it take your less time that it would have taken in C/C++ ? Did it take less code? Because that would have been even funnier and it seems to be something people say about PB from time to time.


"Your Honor, my clients are suing me for breach of contract. They loved my initial work but they became unhappy when they learned that I completed the job in a language they never heard of, in half the time and for half the cost versus doing it in the language they had assumed, but not specified, I would be using".

I'm sure that would have gone over well with a Judge

jassing wrote:Basically it went.......

Been there -- done that. (sigh!) Oh, the joys of working with customers!

Mostly, my customers have been more than happy to let me do my thing, but I've had my share of "moving specs", "helpful" know-it-alls, and just plain idiots.

One of my most satisfying encounters was 20 years ago, at a customer that I'd already been supporting for 15 years. They had about 100 employees and a network of 20+ systems. I was one of the family and tended to dress down -- jeans and t-shirt mostly. And although after 15 years my work was trusted, none of them really knew my background.

On the fateful day, I had been talking with the president about network changes, and was asked to check out the system of a newly hired "marketing assistant" who was having some sort of difficulty. But after half and hour or so I hadn't got the system running, although I was pretty close to having it fixed. By this time the marketing assistant was getting agitated and a small crowd had gathered around us to see what the problem was. I was bombarded with accusations of incompetence and how her boyfriend could do better than me, and what did a scruffy person like me know about computers, etc, etc.

Normally, I'd not say anything, but this time I politely lectured them on my education and work experience. For 15 minutes, managers and employees alike just stood there open mouthed. I then turned back to fixing the system and the crowd drifted away. Nothing more was ever said about my abilities.

Sometimes it's nice to be appreciated.

Seems to be a large oversight not specifying the development language if they also planned to purchase the source code?
This makes me think of the old joke:

Consultants rate schedule wrote:Basic rate - $20/hour
If you watch - $40/hour
If you help - $80/hour
If you tried to fix it yourself - $90/hour

skywalk wrote:This makes me think of the old joke:

Consultants rate schedule wrote:Basic rate - $20/hour
If you watch - $40/hour
If you help - $80/hour
If you tried to fix it yourself - $90/hour

If you insist on letting your pre-school children access the internet on the office computers -- priceless!!

That went a long way towards paying off my mortgage.