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DarkPlayer wrote: It is nice if you recopy your system every day

An OS perpetually frozen in a well known state ? Maybe it's OK for Kiosk or a Bancomat (ATM), with a partition for the immutable OS and one for some data. To me sounds more as a nightmare than a feature tough.

It just boggles my mind when I see software developers talking about using computers from the Paleozoic era.

I never said that I am using Win98 nor that I use it for coding my programs. But hey it takes reading what
is written and not what you think that you see is written.

but it does not protect you against remote code which captures your password to your bank account.

Yes it does. Just before you are going to do your on-line banking, you clone back an image to the os
partition. You boot up an OS from which you are 100 % sure it is clean. The only website you visit first
is the website of your bank, which is clean also.

Consider this : the possibility of your browser getting infected, your login password stolen, directly after
booting a clean os, visiting only the website of your bank, is to my opinion statistically ground zero.

When I install an OS and all the programs, applications, utilities, configurations, etc etc, I make sure
my computer is not connected with the internet so no webshit can come in. Then I check it with 3
different up to date anti virus programs. Then I check if all running processes and opened ports
related to my installed programs are valid. Last thing I check for hidden root kits.

Finally I make an Image of the os partition which is then a clean os and keep it on a safe external place.

It takes a whole afternoon to build all this but it only takes 3 minutes to clone it back in case
your os has been attacked by webshit. Works for me !

And last but certainly not least, an anti virus program certainly helps you keeping webshit out
but in case your os is infected it is never guaranteed that the anti virus program can clean your
OS for 100 %. You need to be lucky that the anti virus program recognizes the attack and has a
cure for it. Scanning your OS partition with an anti virus program can take up a long time and
render your computer cloacked.

Cloning back an image does it for 100 % and in less than 3 minutes.

Do I say here that an anti virus is not needed anymore ? No I don´t, you still need it
for things you download and visit unknown webpages.
cw

Mostly XP followed by Ubuntu

luis wrote:

DarkPlayer wrote: It is nice if you recopy your system every day

An OS perpetually frozen in a well known state ? Maybe it's OK for Kiosk or a Bancomat (ATM), with a partition for the immutable OS and one for some data. To me sounds more as a nightmare than a feature tough.

My comment was meant a bit ironical, for me it sounds also like a nightmare.

@codewalker:
This does not work if you do not update your programs on your backup storage. Your argument that accessing the website directly after the boot without getting in contact with any secruity holes is like working with threads and do not pay attention to thread synchronization. The program can work weeks without an error and then it suddenly crashes, because the threads used the same resources. The chance is almost zero, but it is not zero. Btw, how do you want to use an antivirus software, if you delete the secruity updates every day? Do you always have the backup storage connected, so that it could be infected?

In the first moment it seems like the ultimate solution against secruity risks, but it is not.

DarkPlayer

The chance is almost zero, but it is not zero.

I am working in the computer user service, software and sometimes hardware, for over 15 years
and have seen a lot of computer user scenarios where an os and software was attacked. It only
happened between somewhere a couple of hours or days after a computer was connected with
the internet. The chance that an attack is going to happen both directly after a clean boot, and,
visiting only a well known website is not going to happen in a single life time.

how do you want to use an antivirus software, if you delete the secruity updates every day?

Right now I am using Kaspersky 9.0.0.736en.exe ( 2010version ) The first update of this version
is around 55 Mb and takes me only a couple of minutes to download.

Before you make your OS image you have to plan all your programs, drivers, applications,
utilities, configurations, settings, etc. etc. that you are going to need. After that there
is not so much that is going to change.

In case you want to add or change something to your setup
you simply make an incremental clone.

Here is the cloning program that I use
http://www.drivesnapshot.de/en/index.htm

Have a look at this website because it gives you detailed information about
both the program and about cloning. The program is made by a german coder
named Tom Ehlert whom I greatly respect for his coding abilities. His program
does the Job and blows totally away the bloated Norton Ghost or Acronis. It
works from dos, windows or even from a Bart Boot Cd. I boot from a second
windows partition to reload and image on the first partition. His program also
works while your windows os is running and doesn't suffer from this thread stuff
that was mentioned before. I use it for many years now without any problem. It has
saved me a lot of times from reinstalling my setup. Right now I am contacting
Tom Ehlert about how to clone your image to a computer with different hardware
and different motherboard as this is also possible with his program.
cw

codewalker wrote: In case you want to add something to your setup
you simply make an incremental clone.

Like to change the default color of a program window from black to white ?
Or change a font settings ?
Or change an option in a browser ?

There are good probs these will be written to the registry, so if you don't want loose them the next morning you must do your incremental cloning right away.

So your system is NORMAL after all, it's not immutable like the "restore my image every morning" was suggesting.

Well, I do imaging myself, only not after any minor change or I should devote my life to that. A lot of people do that from what I see.

I use the commercial version of Macrium Reflect. I agree Acronis products were good when they were a small emerging company. Now they are loosing it (and they are in effect quite bloated).

I can imagine that for some time one needs to fine tune his setup
but once you have all your favorite software installed on your computer
nothing is going to be changed anymore. I use my computer to be productive
with coding in PB, flash and php, photodraw, send my emails with portable
thunderbird and browse the web with firefox and k-meleon. For me Windows
has become something that I use to do my things on my computer thanks
to a clone that starts my computer every day with a clean, new and fast os.
I left it behind me that I always needed to fiddle around with windows day
after day like so many computer monkeys out there

Windows XP
Windows Vista x64
Windows 7 x64

codewalker wrote:Just before you are going to do your on-line banking, you clone back an image to the os
partition. You boot up an OS from which you are 100 % sure it is clean. The only website you visit first
is the website of your bank, which is clean also.

The SANS Technology Institute recommends using a Linux Live CD for online banking: http://www.sans.edu/resources/student_p ... 910_05.pdf

DarkPlayer wrote:I know that Windows 98 is not used much in the wild, but i have read today about two people in this board and german board using windows 98 as main OS, so i was a bit confused.

Sorry DarkPlayer, but you didn't state main OS in your poll description. Therefore I think that
the usage of Windows 98 as main OS would be even lower or zero.

In my case working as a systems programmer I am using at work Windows 7 Enterprise and
Windows XP Professional SP2 and SP3 and andLinux as client OS and z/OS, AIX (about 30 servers),
a VMware ESX cluster with dozens of Suse Linux Enterprise Server 10 and 11, Debian and Windows
Server 2003 and 2008 as server operating systems. We even have an old MS-DOS system with old
software that wasn't ported to Windows by the vendor. This PC still controls the access cards for
the doors of our buildings.

At home my family actively uses PCs with Windows 95A, Windows 98, Windows XP Home,
Windows 7 Professional, Kubuntu 10.4, OpenSUSE 11.0 and MacOS X Snowleopard.

And as long as I still have customers using Windows 9x in production I will support these machines.

If PureBASIC should stop the support of Windows 98 that would not be a problem for me because
I don't develop new software solely for these machines and the old software developped with PB
won't even be ported to newer PureBASIC versions. The oldest PB Version I still use for fixing one
of the very rare bugs in my old PB programs is 3.94

Thats right @ the.weavster. Booting from a linux live cd is also a great way for safe surfing.
I was using puppy linux for a while for surfing the net without care. The only
thing you have to check is that your linux live cd recognizes your network card
and you might have to configure it with your adsl router ip and dns. I helped
a friend once with a linux live cd who worked at night at the reception of a
Hotel. The local admin blocked the receptionist computer to let it use only
the website of the Hotel so my friend couldn't surf the net at night and felt
bored. A linux live cd simply bypassed all the restrictions and my friend could
surf the net all he want without touching or leaving anything on the computer
By the way check this out :
http://www.livecdlist.com/?pick=All&showonly=desktop
oh, and this also :
http://www.easyvmx.com/

Desktop = Xp Home + Linux Ubuntu booting from USB HDD
Notebook 1 = Xp Pro
Notebook 2 = W98
Doorstop = Linux CentOS 5.5
I do still use W98 on my old notebook as I still have need to support some old alarm systems which are only accessible via serial port using old DOS based programs. ( No, it never gets used as an internet machine. It is a work machine only... )
The other 1 running CentOS I am currently using as an Asterisk server machine.

Shardik wrote:

DarkPlayer wrote:I know that Windows 98 is not used much in the wild, but i have read today about two people in this board and german board using windows 98 as main OS, so i was a bit confused.

Sorry DarkPlayer, but you didn't state main OS in your poll description. Therefore I think that
the usage of Windows 98 as main OS would be even lower or zero.

You are right, but it was not my intention to get only votes for the main OS (but this was the reason for the vote). I also have windows 98 installed on a virtual machine, to test if my software would be compatible. I boot it like 5 times in a year, so i would not vote for it, as i do not really use it. Some people answer that they need it to support old hardware/software, so maybe the vote should have been: What OS do you use, if you would have a free choice ?

DarkPlayer

I use Win98 and XP. I also have access to Vista in machines belonging to other members of the family.

If I am working, say, writing and testing software, I need to place things on the desktop for easy access, shift files around, find files, share files and so on. In other words my requirements are fairly basic.

So I use Win98 because Microsoft seem incapable of bringing out a new operating system (with presumably lots of new bells and whistles that I don't need), without 'improving' the basics.

So with Windows Explorer on the desktop. View the C: drive.
Win98 - 1 click. WinXP - 3 clicks.
The list goes on.
In the words of the Microsoft advert (at least in the UK) from a year or two ago "Where do you want to go today?".
Do you want to talk about the 'improved' file search facility?
Do you want to talk about the 'improved' way of setting up file sharing?
There are loads of examples beginning with the confusing base pretty screens - yes, I know that you can switch to classic views but if the 'improvements' are so good, why do they feel compelled to offer classic views?

Here then is one last gripe. ActiveX items can be nasty things. It is therefore commendable that Microsoft should protect against the installation of such items. However having established that the user really does want to indeed install one, why make it virtually impossible? Regsvr works on Win98 and on XP under admin. With Vista you may have to switch some settings beforehand. With Win7 it may or may not install!

So in conclusion I use Win98 for most of my work. Because the HDDs are on removeable caddies it is easier to be lazy and stay on Win98 most of the time, with SeaMonkey as the Internet browser.

My use of WinXP is mostly when I need to do graphic work. Strange that Adobe, Macromedia, AVG and the like think they have to bring out improved none-backward compatible products every time there is a Windows launch. After all VLC, the freeware graphic viewer still works perfectly okay with Win98.

For the sake of completeness, I will talk about my continued interest in Win98 and how it ties in with Pb. Perhaps this should be a new thread. If you think so do say and I will edit it out.

Over the years I have had a program for museums that display pictures with/without captions or commentaries. Don't get excited! I only sold two to small venues that operating on a shoestring. I am now virtually retired but it is a nice product to have - it can be pretty and useful. It also keeps my brain working. Originally written in assembler and then in QB (BMP and WAV), it was reasonable to re-write it in VB6, to take advantage of jpeg/ogg.

Now these things are installed as a 'hole-in-the-wall' or kiosk display. The machines are likely to be unaccessible. Switching on or off is at the mains wall socket, or an area contactor, or a mains run-up sequencer. With Win98 you have a small-sized operating system that is easy to arrange so that it comes up running properly after a 'crashed' switch-off. With later Windows it becomes much more convoluted. Even if you switch off updates for firewall, antivirus etc. (none of these are required - the machine is stand-alone), I notice Vista still spends waiting-time in disbelief that you should dare to want to operate without these 'helpful' messages.

Problem is that quality older machines are getting difficult to find and more modern graphic cards and the like do not support Win98. As I understand it there are versions of Linux that are little more than old-fashioned DOS but with modern peripheral handlers.

So if I can convert my program to Pb to be Windows/Linux compatible I should have a solution to any hardware any OS. Last time I looked at Pb in the mid 90s, the compatibility between Windows and Linux for various commands I needed was not there. This time round it seems to be there although there are a couple of problems (Ogg IsPlaying and Textbox background transparency) that I will need to resolve.

Will it ever see light? I don't know. Still it keeps the brain working a little longer.

Perhaps I should start signing my postings 'Grumpy Old Man'

Regards,

Ernest

epog10 wrote:Last time I looked at Pb in the mid 90s

That would have to be quite a few years before Fred joined the team so PB would have looked really.. well... 'somewhat Basic'. Things are much better now...