PureBasic Forums - English

PB wrote:> Why shouldn't I ask here

Because you can't diagnose physical problems via text messages with others.
If you have a medical problem, you see a real doctor -- not your programming
buddies on the internet. And chiropractor <> doctor.

> don't tell me you never had wrist pain

Okay, I won't.

He did see a real doctor, not just a chiropractor.

I have also consulted my doctor to ask about this

You said that "Since it is only occasional and not permanent pain..."

Carpal tunnel may be intermittant, it doesn't have to keep you in constant pain. The swelling could be intermittant. The median nerve passes through the carpal tunnel to receive sensations from the thumb, index, and middle fingers of the hand. Any condition that causes swelling or a change in position of the tissue within the carpal tunnel can squeeze and irritate the median nerve. Irritation of the median nerve in this manner generally causes tingling and numbness of the thumb, index, and the middle fingers. If the condition is severe there can be lots of pain, it doesn't have to always cause the tingling or numbness. In my case it was causing a lot of pain, which is why its sometimes misdiagnosed because going straight to pain rather then the numbness indicates certain nerves that are irritated causing pain which is associated with a pinched nerve.

But I just caught this, you went to a chiropractor and you said that he relieved the pain. Since chiropractors most often deal with the bone structure in some way - such as alignment of the spine and relieving pressure for problems with the spinal column, the pinched nerve thing might be a source of your problems. Might be up around your neck area where its pinched. Is your monitor at eye level or do you tilt your head down (if even slightly) to look at the monitor? It you do tilt your head down a little, I could see where long periods of time at the computer with your head in a "held" position like that could lead to a sort of mis-alignment of the spinal column at the neck area, which could be corrected most likely by a chiropractor. And after correction if you continued doing it (the head tilt) then the pain could come back.

Just some thoughts, not medical advice.

For the last 2 years I've had (because of the computer) so much pain (hands, arms, neck, back, you name it) that I haven't been able to work with anything serious on it anymore. And I had to cut out online chatting too... (which I for some reason did a lot before :S how else can a geek be "social"?) The problem has really fucked up my life (even made me suicidal), I could have earned a living doing programming, but it seems that I now have to find something else to do. And yes I've been to doctors and specialists and whatnot...

So nowadays I try to put in more exercise and stretching and use the computer much less (that's why I'm not so much around anymore). But I think that I am starting to get a little better since in the last few nights I have actually been able to go to sleep without feeling pains everywhere.

I wish you (and myself) good luck, and I think the most important thing we can do is to just stay as much as we can away from the computer (until we get better).

> He did see a real doctor, not just a chiropractor

I missed that. It was missed in all the text which I just skimmed. Didn't see
the forest for the trees. I really should leave these forums.

As for my use of the mouse: my arm rests on my desk from the middle to
the wrist, so the desk supports the weight of my arm fully. Maybe that'll
help? Maybe you already said that but I just skimmed the replies. Like
I said, it's time for me to leave these forums forever. I've done my time.

Hope your wrist gets solved one way or the other. Over and out!

PB wrote:> He did see a real doctor, not just a chiropractor

I missed that. It was missed in all the text which I just skimmed. Didn't see
the forest for the trees. I really should leave these forums.

As for my use of the mouse: my arm rests on my desk from the middle to
the wrist, so the desk supports the weight of my arm fully. Maybe that'll
help? Maybe you already said that but I just skimmed the replies. Like
I said, it's time for me to leave these forums forever. I've done my time.

Hope your wrist gets solved one way or the other. Over and out!

everybody overlooks something once in a while

talisman wrote:Hello good friends,

I suffer from severe wrist pain whenever I use my computer for more than 2 or 3 hours. This has been going on for 2 years already if not longer. Ever since it happened the first time I had been starting to investigate what could be the cause of this and I've never found a real solution to this problem.

I have the same pains but i have noticed that if i don't keep my hand on the mouse for extended periods it get better. Basically, don't have your hand on the mouse if your not moving the cursor.

Also, you could try a vertical mouse.

http://www.evoluent.com/

I got away from a mouse myself, went with a trackball. Even before I had the carpal tunnel surgery a trackball helped greatly to lessen the severity of the symptoms.



http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/mice_ ... /&cl=us,en

How does the ball-in-the-middle design work out for you? I'm only used to the thumb-ones but i think i'll grap the Trackman Marble next time

My very first trackball was the thumb type, it was very easy to get used to but I had to move to the ball-in-the-middle trackball because the thumb one didn't really help relieve the symptoms. At work they bought us the new ball-in-the-middle trackball and I didn't like it at first because it was different then what I had gotten used to but i found that in a couple of days using it my pain decreased tremendously. Not only that, after using it for a bit I found it to be more controllable, comfortable, and more precise, for use so I bought one for use at home and been using it ever since. I love it and would never part with it, heck, I even got my wife hooked on it and she also sees it as far superior to a mouse.

If someone wants my house, my car...so take them, but if they touch my trackball they are going to have a big problem.

SFSxOI wrote:My very first trackball was the thumb type, it was very easy to get used to but I had to move to the ball-in-the-middle trackball because the thumb one didn't really help relieve the symptoms. At work they bought us the new ball-in-the-middle trackball and I didn't like it at first because it was different then what I had gotten used to but i found that in a couple of days using it my pain decreased tremendously. Not only that, after using it for a bit I found it to be more controllable, comfortable, and more precise, for use so I bought one for use at home and been using it ever since. I love it and would never part with it, heck, I even got my wife hooked on it and she also sees it as far superior to a mouse.

If someone wants my house, my car...so take them, but if they touch my trackball they are going to have a big problem.

Heheh i'll just buy my own, then

Thanks for the comments on it, i'll get one soon. I was afraid about precision compared to the thumb types (which was surprisingly good, I used it for everything; even games). Glad to hear you found it even better, though. I've only heard positive comments on it so far

A larger mouse helps too... The gaming mouse Ihave is perfect for my large hands!!!

But you are describing carpal Tunnel Syndrome effects... Go see a doctor!

Thank you all for the help so far, I have already contacted a doctor, who is specialist for arm, neck and back pain. Tomorrow I'll get checked up so let's see what the result is and I do hope it is not carpal tunnel syndrome or tendinitis.

Although I don't visit the gym, I use single arm weights regularly to keep my arm muscles in shape, for the rest of my body all I do is play soccer / go jogging / cycling

following Trond's and Rescator's advice though, the pain is almost gone. Like 99% gone. All I feel now in my wrist is the same like one would feel if watching TV in the same posture for long hours; it doesn't hurt, but it isn't comfortable either. So I think this is an excellent improvement! My hand is now "forced" to a "vertical" position though, so that Evoluent mouse looks definitely interesting. I'm not a big fan of trackballs, at least the Logitech, have tried it out and it felt very unnatural to me.

- talisman

good answers so far...

one more point:
it could be a tennis-arm problem, when you are not that young and not trained for decades.
(the same problem that is known as "tennis-arm" can occur on exessive work with the mouse)
my dad had that problem a while ago. for the acute pains, he had do go the same treatment like for the tennis-arm.

sure, he change the whole ergonomicy of his working place to avoid problems coming back,
but the acute problem needs a professional medical treatment.

talisman wrote:I have consulted a chiropractor, who did wonders to my wrist. The pain was gone for a whole week regardless of the continuous use of my PC. Sadly it came back and I believe this time even worse than it was the first time.

A chiropractor's adjustments will relieve the pain by manipulating the bones, muscles, and so forth, they won't really cause any permanent changes. Your daily activities and habits are what placed your body in that position of pain to begin with and will enable that pain to return. This means that lasting changes occur through stretching and exercise, modifying habits, and if need be surgery.

As you already noted, the suggestions regarding the changing of your habits have helped you reduce pain. The suggestions for stretching and exercise will help build strength to prevent injury. Those should go a long way to keep you away from ever needing surgery. If surgery is required, its benefits would still be increased by positive changes in habits, excercise, and stretching.


My suggestions would echo many of those already given. Here's another one. Do shoulder shrugs/rolls by placing your shoulders forward and rolling them backward a few times, then reversing. Do this as a way to help them relax.


I wish you the best.

Keyboards used to kill me about 8-9 years ago, after going to the ergo split keyboard that got a lot better. Then a couple of years back it started again with my mouse arm, forearm and sometimes back of my hand.

Those vertical mouse things kept me going for a while but eventually I swapped to become a left handed mouse user. That seems to have me under control again.

Coincidently, my ergo keyboard at work died yesterday (the del key died so I can't log on ) so I went a day on a normal keyboard and it took about 2-3 hours for the old pains to come back.

I asked a doctor in Japan about it, what a waste of time that was. He said "can you still move your fingers?" "urm, yeah!" :roll: "Well you're okay then!" The old fart must be used to looking at war wounds or something.

All I can say, is don't give up, try new devices, new positions, armrests, desk heights, check your feet are on the floor okay etc etc or whatever and give things a decent go, it can take a week for the pain to die down when you try something new that works. Just be careful of the wonder devices that claim to fix everything for $$$, they are a scam.

RSI is evil feel fortunate if you haven't experienced it.