PureBasic Forums - English

We like the way to have one single product, the same for everyone: it won't be changed. [Traumatic]Having many products[EndTraumatic] adds complexity, more support and more annoyed users.

I totally agree with you Fred.
But if you decide to update the website, I'm sure there will be lots of willing volunteers around. Me included.

Some of what you did say was already suggested by others (like me). I don't think Fred will ever change the 3D engine. It will be OGRE, as much as I and others may dislike that fakt.

Fred wrote:We like the way to have one single product, the same for everyone: [...] It adds complexity, more support and more annoyed users.

Fred wrote:We like the way to have one single product, the same for everyone: it won't be changed. It adds complexity, more support and more annoyed users.

I highly respect your decisions Fred, and it is your product of which we are speaking, but let me add the following points:

To make customers not get confused, we should simply explain the different branches:

There are 3 flavours of PureBasic available:
1. PureBasic Professional Edition - 70€
2. PureBasic Game Developer - 35€
3. PureBasic Application Edition - 35€

The Game Developer flavour aims at making complex 2D and 3D game creation a snap with a level editor and advanced animated image support. The Game Developer flavour also allows simple access to low-level OpenGL programming.

The Application Edition aims at making high-end applications easy with a nice yet powerful Visual Designer with that you can visually design your application in no time! Your talents are further expanded with Win32 API support with that you can take advantage of complex Windows specific calls like custom window controls.

The Professional Edition combines both the Game Developer and Application Edition flavours, so you won't miss anything! This is the full package of PureBasic which lets you make virtually anything your skills can desire!

Upgrades for the Game Developer and Application Edition to the Professional Edition are available for as low as 35€, so you pay the same amount as if you would buy the whole Professional Edition.

I don't want to make PureBasic like Blitz, but it would be really great if we could buy PureBasic for 35€ for our needs (either game development or application development, or both if we are ready to buy Professional Edition).

Do as you like Fred, again this is your product, but I please and beg you to reconsider the idea with freak and Berikco and the rest of the team. Thank you anyway Fred.

@Fred

sorry, I only suggested different advertising. (somewhere there in another thread)

perhaps, two different websides for the same product would be a nice idea.

one stiled for professional app-programmers, one for playful game-proggers.

I still think, PB is able to catch both contradict customers-groups.


...btw.... I like to re-demand standard API-calls with 64bit, for openGL aswell as for DirectX specials...

codemaniac wrote:Do as you like Fred, again this is your product, but I please and beg you to reconsider the idea with freak and Berikco and the rest of the team. Thank you anyway Fred.

Stop with the whining. Its getting annoying... :roll:

Stop with the whining. Its getting annoying... :roll:

Alright, you all seem to have made your decision. I will never talk about this topic anymore. I am really sorry for the annoyance I have bought in this topic. Sorry again.

I really don't believe this... You are actually whining about the price??? $99 for a language like PureBasic with lifetime upgrades and support is too much in your eyes?? Get real!! PB should cost like $199 and $99 for every major new release!! Atleast!! And it would still be a really good value for your money!

Some people really have no clue...

@maw: I think you go a little bit over the top. Sure, PB is nice and cool, but $199 and $99 for every major update? You haven't forgot the Visual Express stuff from Microsoft, the Turbo stuff from Borland or the various other hobby languages, have you? In fact I think if PB would cost more than $99, there wouln't be many people considering to buy it. However, I think Fred should charge an annual fee of $25-$50 for updates to be sure he can stay in the business improving PB.

I have to say though: I'm still against OGRE and think the team shoul pick up Irrlicht instead. Much easier to handle, examples of physics integration already available, more flexible because of the many supported file formats and available on Linux and Mac OS.

codemaniac wrote:The Game Developer flavour aims at making complex 2D and 3D game creation a snap with a level editor and advanced animated image support.

There is nothing preventing someone in the community from creating such a level editor and selling it.
Heck, I'm pretty sure the PureBasic Team would even help with questions or maybe even add a feature here and there to make the level editor run nicely alongside the PureBasic IDE.

I can't imagine the work involved with the current 3 branches of PureBasic (Windows, Mac, Linux), adding another 3 branches of the package would bump it up to a creepy 3*3 i.e 9 branches and that's not even counting the demo versions. Then there is the extra logistics involved with multiple pricing and license variants and upgrade options, and possible update troubles. (trying to keep 9 branches in sync)

The idea itself is good, but damn there's a whole mess of things behind the idea that need to be handled.
Also, the App/Gamer/Pro thing smells a bit too much like certain other offerings out there.

Myself I'd rather see more marketing and getting "the word out there" about PureBasic, especially now that 4.0 is out and that the latest beta seems to be speeding along nicely and a new 4.x "final" update is not that far off, the 4.x version is shaping up nicely. I want to see more people buying PureBasic and loving it as much as we do rather than some possibly feeling ripped off cause their APP version is not giving them game features or vice versa.

And sadly, multiple choices tend to make people hesitate a bit compared to just a single version being available.
Just look at MicroSoft's Vista offering, some people are even dropping back to XP. If big MicroSoft are having issues then imagine PureBasic.

Maybe one day when PureBasic is truly big (in the million dollars region) we will have PureBasic plus a set of different feature plugins, created by the PureBasic team or by community members and offered to the community for a nice fee.

I think this has been suggested many times in the past, a PureBasic community "shop" where the PureBasic team gets a small percentage of the sales. I'd rather see that, than multiple PureBasic versions.
This would allow customers to buy PureBasic and browse through plenty of "enhancements" or "addons" that may cover exactly their specific needs and buy them. Fred and team gets some beer money and the people that made the stuff gets some nice pocket cash or even a side income.

maw wrote:PB should cost like $199 and $99 for every major new release!! Atleast!! And it would still be a really good value for your money!

Aaah, you are probably right but please don't give Fred evil ideas now. My wallet and heart can't handle costs like that right now or in the near future right now!

Sebe wrote:In fact I think if PB would cost more than $99, there wouln't be many people considering to buy it.

You might be right!

Sebe wrote:However, I think Fred should charge an annual fee of $25-$50 for updates to be sure he can stay in the business improving PB.

Although I both hate and like that idea at the same time. I think the community store thing might end up having a similar benefit without forcing Fred to rewrite the PureBasic license. (free lifetime upgrades) And I kinda think those sums look a bit high. (lots of poor/freelace/bedroom/unemployed programmers here) If it was lower, an provided some additional benefits then I might or might not pay it, hard to say.

As for the community store thing however, I'm pretty sure I'd sell a few addons for PureBasic but more likely sell some software through it. And I'm damn sure many here would do the same. (sell their stuff via a PureBasic Store rather than one of the x many pay solutions out there)

I'm sure Fred could get a nice deal with a large international online solution to act as the backbone for such a store. (basically Fantaise Software would be what you call a re-seller/re-tailer in this case)

And if the community makes a good effort to ensure good quality and good service to the end customer such a store could end up as place for "quality brand" / good software. With a profit potential higher than currently with PureBasic.

Sebe wrote:I have to say though: I'm still against OGRE and think the team shoul pick up Irrlicht instead. Much easier to handle, examples of physics integration already available, more flexible because of the many supported file formats and available on Linux and Mac OS.

I got no idea where the PureBasic team currently is regarding OGRE, and I know many want to do apps AND games with PureBasic. I wonder if there is any way to make using 3rd party 3D engines easier to use? (looks at PB Team) and just skip trying to natively use OGRE and rather focus on media features instead. (like streaming audio, native support of OpenAL which is a must now considering the Vista issue and OpenAL is on all 3 PB platforms as well) And supporting more OS stuff for the 3 platforms.

Sure 3D games are cool and I hope to make something one day in that area too. But multimedia applications is much more in need of love. Just take JLC's net tv app. Media video/audio/web/OS stuff all being used. Also there is no way PureBasic will ever be able to compete against the likes of "Unreal 3 Engine" or "id Tech 5" or "Source" or "Lithtech" or "CryEngine" etc, all of which are tailored for fully making 3D games some of them for multiple platforms. (Unreal 3 and id Tech 5 for example)

It would be quicker and easier for PureBasic to get some even better multimedia support like:
Audio and video streaming, multiple audio channel, effects, video and image filters support, video and audio conversion support, audio and video recording support, html interfaced "apps", better support for internet/network clients that talk to servers, a native download function (please, even the PB updater is able to do this

The list could go on and on, but all the things mentioned just above, am I right in guessing hat more than 70% of people here would love to see more focus on those instead of OGRE etc?

I can imagine the amazing multimedia apps the people on this forum would be able to create, lots of talent here.

*******

If I'm brutally honest I wish Fred would just wipe out any 3D game engine code that's part of PureBasic. "Ganz oder gar nicht" would be the German slogan, because currently 3D in PureBasic is not nothing but it can also not be considered a serious approach at 3D.

I agree to Sebe.

this OGRE implementation is fine as NOTHING

passing all API comand as been before, but ALSO with 64bit arguments...

yap for openGL this would mean complete includement, without any importz...

same for DX9....

and PB would be the FU*ING WINNER of all

..........no kiddin.........

sorry... this entity seems to b drunken...
c u whenever