The proof; thinstall has been unpacked:
http://forum.exetools.com/showthread.ph ... ode=linear
Really good protection system?
USA Department of Defensethefool wrote:Like i give a shit; i havent heard of them before. neither of any app's they got...USA DoD use it
*grumble*
Last edited by Kale on Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
--Kale
-
White Eagle
- Enthusiast
- Posts: 215
- Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 3:38 am
- Location: Maryland
Yes thinstall certainly looks like one of the best products out there. I just said that the thing DOD use it is not a reason that a developer should. And i corrected you on that it havent been unpacked.Kale wrote:USA Department of Defense! oh and by the way fuck you! i was only trying to help and suggest another product, dickhead! :roll: What's wrong with your attitude recently? ffs
I realize my attitude was bad, im sorry about that..
edit: ho ho ho, white eagle
Thinstall is fantastic, no doubt, but hardly anyone but fortune 500 companies can afford to use it nowadays. The last version they let me have (after giving them several thousand dollars) is now useless and I've moved to WinLicense by Oreans. The developer is responsive and friendly and it has all the major features I look for (especialyl when you get the XBundler product as well).
Check it out : http://www.oreans.com
BTW - that thread isn't proof of much, even when it was current 2+ years ago
Check it out : http://www.oreans.com
BTW - that thread isn't proof of much, even when it was current 2+ years ago
Last edited by Karbon on Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-Mitchell
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Besides im finding more and more clues on how to deprotect thinstall..
I could not remember the name Oreans Technology but i have had a look at Themida before, and i just found this:
"Themida is the evolution of Xprotector."
I just got my hands on a tutorial about cracking themida 1.0.0.5 (current version is v. 1.7.0.6), and that is not for newbies
I also snapped this up at the exetools forum:
I was in contact with the XProtector developers actually, nice people.
I know i talk about themida all the time; but lets just call it the "protection" part of winlicense.
(yeah, the price is very affordable, too.)
I could not remember the name Oreans Technology but i have had a look at Themida before, and i just found this:
"Themida is the evolution of Xprotector."
I just got my hands on a tutorial about cracking themida 1.0.0.5 (current version is v. 1.7.0.6), and that is not for newbies
I also snapped this up at the exetools forum:
the stripper, is in this case, a themida remover.I can see the point. There is a personal debate between the chinese author of the stripper (which by the way, afaik, is a registered customer of Xprotector/Themida) and the author of XProtector/Themida. That's how the stripper had all the latest registered versions to implement his stripper. If you notice the latest 1 or 2 versions are not supported. Possible author of XProtector/Themida banned him.
I was in contact with the XProtector developers actually, nice people.
I know i talk about themida all the time; but lets just call it the "protection" part of winlicense.
(yeah, the price is very affordable, too.)
Just to add to the mix, I came across this prog a couple of years ago:
http://www.mindestworx.fr.st/
It worked OK for me then. But checking on it now it hasn't seemed to have progressed much in the time.
But hey it could be worth a look ...
http://www.mindestworx.fr.st/
It worked OK for me then. But checking on it now it hasn't seemed to have progressed much in the time.
But hey it could be worth a look ...
-
localmotion34
- Enthusiast
- Posts: 665
- Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2003 10:40 pm
- Location: Tallahassee, Florida
Well, ive come to the conclusion that no protection system is safe.
after looking at some of the forums, it appears that the most difficult protection systems CAN be cracked. Its just that the crackers dont always release to the general Scene. Thats why it appears as people like Mr_Magic and others seem to be so far ahead of the curve. Theyve already cracked a protection 5 or 6 times in different apps, and only later on do they release their tools to do it for anyone else.
SnD is pretty much unstoppable. Aggression unpacks just about every target they look at.
I wish i had some of the old NFOs from dREAM tEAM, where he just goes after Chad Nelson, and they write Chad's responses from the forums in the NFO. dream team usually releases their serials with Chad Nelson as the reg name. LOL.
Ive reveresed about 20 Armadillo apps. after the first 5 or 6 of manually doing it using olly and ollyscript, and IMPREC, i went on to use DilloDIE. it gets boring, and the real challenge is to find the keygen routine, and try to rip it. thats where im learning the weaknesses of protections, and learning what NOT to do.
you wouldnt believe that in ALOT of apps, that you can turn it into the full version just by removing Dillo!!!. it will just say "registered user" in the about box.
the rest of them you can either use the Resurrection Armaccess.dll, or the Team inFected DLL after unpacking, and poof, registers perfectly. actually kinda sad.
alot of apps are written in Delphi, and then packed with Dillo, ASpack/protect. After unpacking them, use DeDe, and its a matter of minutes before you have right in front of you the registerbutton.click procedure.
anything ive written above is a perfect example of what NOT to do!!!!
i firmly believe that you dont send a mouse into the snakepit, become a snake yourself and strike back. just dont become a BAD snake and release for everyone to steal. theres a difference in reversinng for learning, and reversing to contribute to the "Scene".
after looking at some of the forums, it appears that the most difficult protection systems CAN be cracked. Its just that the crackers dont always release to the general Scene. Thats why it appears as people like Mr_Magic and others seem to be so far ahead of the curve. Theyve already cracked a protection 5 or 6 times in different apps, and only later on do they release their tools to do it for anyone else.
SnD is pretty much unstoppable. Aggression unpacks just about every target they look at.
I wish i had some of the old NFOs from dREAM tEAM, where he just goes after Chad Nelson, and they write Chad's responses from the forums in the NFO. dream team usually releases their serials with Chad Nelson as the reg name. LOL.
Ive reveresed about 20 Armadillo apps. after the first 5 or 6 of manually doing it using olly and ollyscript, and IMPREC, i went on to use DilloDIE. it gets boring, and the real challenge is to find the keygen routine, and try to rip it. thats where im learning the weaknesses of protections, and learning what NOT to do.
you wouldnt believe that in ALOT of apps, that you can turn it into the full version just by removing Dillo!!!. it will just say "registered user" in the about box.
the rest of them you can either use the Resurrection Armaccess.dll, or the Team inFected DLL after unpacking, and poof, registers perfectly. actually kinda sad.
alot of apps are written in Delphi, and then packed with Dillo, ASpack/protect. After unpacking them, use DeDe, and its a matter of minutes before you have right in front of you the registerbutton.click procedure.
anything ive written above is a perfect example of what NOT to do!!!!
i firmly believe that you dont send a mouse into the snakepit, become a snake yourself and strike back. just dont become a BAD snake and release for everyone to steal. theres a difference in reversinng for learning, and reversing to contribute to the "Scene".
Code: Select all
!.WHILE status != dwPassedOut
! Invoke AllocateDrink, dwBeerAmount
!MOV Mug, Beer
!Invoke Drink, Mug, dwBeerAmount
!.endw
I'm still waiting for the answer to the above.. I'm not interested if execryptor's been cracked for serials.. since that's just one of its functions & I think you're pushing it uphill to truly safeguard serials. I am particularly interested if execryptor's been 'cracked' to the point that its protection of programmer's routines (via polymorphic encryption) has been compromised.mskuma wrote:For EXEcryptor, what does cracked mean? As I indicated, EXEcryptor is really 2 things - an encryption/anti-debug scheme & serial number management scheme. Are both schemes 'cracked' or just the latter (which I guess is more important for crooks).localmotion34 wrote:EXEcryptor has been cracked. They state that they are worried that if someone with a WORKING key teams up with the person who cracked it. it is big trouble.
Yes, mskuma, I'm sure someone has cracked applications protected with EXEcryptor.
NO single system is secure. Remember that all you're trying to do (for the most part) is keep honest people honest.
No matter what protection system you use it is wise to :
Change your encryption keys for each build.
Maintain (and enforce) a blacklist of serial numbers received through credit card fraud.
Some do this, but it's up to you. Include a check for the serial number when you "check for updates" through the software.
If your software becomes popular then someone will crack it no matter what you use as protection. Keep that in mind and concentrate more on selling your software than preventing piracy and you're going to come out on top every time.
NO single system is secure. Remember that all you're trying to do (for the most part) is keep honest people honest.
No matter what protection system you use it is wise to :
Change your encryption keys for each build.
Maintain (and enforce) a blacklist of serial numbers received through credit card fraud.
Some do this, but it's up to you. Include a check for the serial number when you "check for updates" through the software.
If your software becomes popular then someone will crack it no matter what you use as protection. Keep that in mind and concentrate more on selling your software than preventing piracy and you're going to come out on top every time.
-Mitchell
Check out kBilling for all your billing software needs!
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Code Signing / Authenticode Certificates (Get rid of those Unknown Publisher warnings!)
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Code Signing / Authenticode Certificates (Get rid of those Unknown Publisher warnings!)
http://codesigning.ksoftware.net
True Num3, that's a perfect solution
-Mitchell
Check out kBilling for all your billing software needs!
http://www.k-billing.com
Code Signing / Authenticode Certificates (Get rid of those Unknown Publisher warnings!)
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Check out kBilling for all your billing software needs!
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Code Signing / Authenticode Certificates (Get rid of those Unknown Publisher warnings!)
http://codesigning.ksoftware.net
Here is a simple solution:
Create a serial made up of a datestamp and a userid, and tack on a checksum of the serial at the end of the serial.
Present it in the form of a HEX serial.
The checksum will help catch entry mistakes,
and as a quick validation.
(nice over phone and similar)
Even though an unlimited numberr of serials can be made,
your customer database only contains valid (white listes) serials.
Only those with a existing serial get updates, support, posting rights in forum, discounts etc.
In other words, the serial is not there to prevent copying or fake serials.
It is only there to act as a customer validation/id of purchase and services.
You know, kinda like the postal services do when they track packages etc.
There is no magic, no secrecy. Sure there may pop up a keygen,
but anyone with a fake key will be totaly left out in the cold anyway.
And for the "casual copyer" this "serial" is "personality tied" enough that it will act as a deterrent.
And the best part is that no no-cd is needed, no messing up system drivers, or needing a special system for distribution.
And it would be easy to provide a DEMO serial as well.
Obviously if the software is popular it would be pirated a lot,
but I think the benefit (to both you and the customers) on the ease of such a system would regain what would be lost to piracy
(which would not be that different from software that use really mean systems)
And another thing, trying to turn pirates into customers would never really work.
I'd never want a pirate as a customer anyway (and they rarerly wish to be one too so)
Just make sure that customers know that this product is licensesd to them and them only and that causual copying (or releasing the serial) could burn them (all priviledges revoked, deleted as a customer).
But also make sure to point out that their serial (or id if you will) will gain them something that fakes can't get.
Focus on support firstmost, it's the reliable customers that will sustain your product. Make their life hard (evil registration, protection drivers messing with the system or refusing to be on the same system as Nero etc) and you might loose valid customers.
If anything, try to show potential pirates that being a paying customer brings more benefits than not paying.
Heck, PureBasic is a damn good example of this (or rather a similar system).
And anyone popping near the forum that seems to have a illegal copy practically get lynched. Now that is community, and the support Fred is giving is heroic compared to most companies out there.
The cost of PB paid for more than just PB itself, you got support community and a future with the product as well.
I know, it's idealistic. But that is also the grear part!
And for the record, the concept mentioned futher up is something I'll be using on pretty much all my software.
I may even share the code for it with the PB community as well. (will need to write some documentation, it's not just a serial it's a complete system as well.)
Create a serial made up of a datestamp and a userid, and tack on a checksum of the serial at the end of the serial.
Present it in the form of a HEX serial.
The checksum will help catch entry mistakes,
and as a quick validation.
(nice over phone and similar)
Even though an unlimited numberr of serials can be made,
your customer database only contains valid (white listes) serials.
Only those with a existing serial get updates, support, posting rights in forum, discounts etc.
In other words, the serial is not there to prevent copying or fake serials.
It is only there to act as a customer validation/id of purchase and services.
You know, kinda like the postal services do when they track packages etc.
There is no magic, no secrecy. Sure there may pop up a keygen,
but anyone with a fake key will be totaly left out in the cold anyway.
And for the "casual copyer" this "serial" is "personality tied" enough that it will act as a deterrent.
And the best part is that no no-cd is needed, no messing up system drivers, or needing a special system for distribution.
And it would be easy to provide a DEMO serial as well.
Obviously if the software is popular it would be pirated a lot,
but I think the benefit (to both you and the customers) on the ease of such a system would regain what would be lost to piracy
(which would not be that different from software that use really mean systems)
And another thing, trying to turn pirates into customers would never really work.
I'd never want a pirate as a customer anyway (and they rarerly wish to be one too so)
Just make sure that customers know that this product is licensesd to them and them only and that causual copying (or releasing the serial) could burn them (all priviledges revoked, deleted as a customer).
But also make sure to point out that their serial (or id if you will) will gain them something that fakes can't get.
Focus on support firstmost, it's the reliable customers that will sustain your product. Make their life hard (evil registration, protection drivers messing with the system or refusing to be on the same system as Nero etc) and you might loose valid customers.
If anything, try to show potential pirates that being a paying customer brings more benefits than not paying.
Heck, PureBasic is a damn good example of this (or rather a similar system).
And anyone popping near the forum that seems to have a illegal copy practically get lynched. Now that is community, and the support Fred is giving is heroic compared to most companies out there.
The cost of PB paid for more than just PB itself, you got support community and a future with the product as well.
I know, it's idealistic. But that is also the grear part!
And for the record, the concept mentioned futher up is something I'll be using on pretty much all my software.
I may even share the code for it with the PB community as well. (will need to write some documentation, it's not just a serial it's a complete system as well.)
The problem with "just" a serial system like that is that any amateur cracker can open your EXE in SoftICE and change the 'equal' to 'not equal' and distribute a patcher program that just circumvents all serial numbers tests all together.
So
if SerialIsValid() = True
DoSomething()
EndIf
becomes
if SerialIsValid() != True
DoSomething()
EndIf
... or something like that.
All protection/encryption systems do is make it so that experienced crackers have to take a stab at it. Hopefully you'll make it hard enough to not be worth the time.
So
if SerialIsValid() = True
DoSomething()
EndIf
becomes
if SerialIsValid() != True
DoSomething()
EndIf
... or something like that.
All protection/encryption systems do is make it so that experienced crackers have to take a stab at it. Hopefully you'll make it hard enough to not be worth the time.
-Mitchell
Check out kBilling for all your billing software needs!
http://www.k-billing.com
Code Signing / Authenticode Certificates (Get rid of those Unknown Publisher warnings!)
http://codesigning.ksoftware.net
Check out kBilling for all your billing software needs!
http://www.k-billing.com
Code Signing / Authenticode Certificates (Get rid of those Unknown Publisher warnings!)
http://codesigning.ksoftware.net
Well that's why I said idealistic.
As I focus on using the "serial" to actually add value for the customer,
it is not intended to prevent crackers in any way.
It will prevent casual copying though.
And if somebody goes out of their way and get a "patcher" for the program or similar,
then that "customer" allready has no intention of being a customer in the first place, and would most likely do the same regardless of what protection system is in place anyway.
And I'd prefer not to have their business anyway (trying to force people like that to be a customer would be I guess a "hostile customer"
Not unlike the way the support section of the PB site need your email and pass.
As for your pseudo example in circumventing, yeah that is pretty much how 90% of protection systems are cracked.
I'm basically saying! "Pirates huh? I don't give a damn, your not paying anyway. Now let me get back to supporting those who pay. You are not worth the effort, bye bye!" *laughs*
As I focus on using the "serial" to actually add value for the customer,
it is not intended to prevent crackers in any way.
It will prevent casual copying though.
And if somebody goes out of their way and get a "patcher" for the program or similar,
then that "customer" allready has no intention of being a customer in the first place, and would most likely do the same regardless of what protection system is in place anyway.
And I'd prefer not to have their business anyway (trying to force people like that to be a customer would be I guess a "hostile customer"
Well, if that is done the server will be very stubborn and not allow download of a update or extra stuff, even if it was a fake serial the server would refuse as serial is not pre-generated at all but generated per customer on purchase as a proof of support.Karbon wrote:The problem with "just" a serial system like that is that any amateur cracker can open your EXE in SoftICE and change the 'equal' to 'not equal' and distribute a patcher program that just circumvents all serial numbers tests all together.
Not unlike the way the support section of the PB site need your email and pass.
As for your pseudo example in circumventing, yeah that is pretty much how 90% of protection systems are cracked.
I'm basically saying! "Pirates huh? I don't give a damn, your not paying anyway. Now let me get back to supporting those who pay. You are not worth the effort, bye bye!" *laughs*