PureBasic Forums - English

thefool wrote:Wise words, mr. maD

however it runs quite good here, actually.
5 seconds startup isnt too bad.

Thanks *likes the idea of being mad Mat* I expect Java is a lot faster than may be expected and there is even software that will compile Java to native machine code, e.g. GCJ and Excelsior JET, neither of which i've used but they sound interesting.

MrMat wrote:

thefool wrote:Wise words, mr. maD

however it runs quite good here, actually.
5 seconds startup isnt too bad.

Thanks *likes the idea of being mad Mat* I expect Java is a lot faster than may be expected and there is even software that will compile Java to native machine code, e.g. GCJ and Excelsior JET, neither of which i've used but they sound interesting.

Mr. Hat?



however yeah i have seen those compilers. Never tried them, though. But java is rather fast yeh..

thefool wrote:Mr. Hat?

Nice one

I wonder if Trond has the java runtimes install on his machine? He might want to remove that crap.

Heathen wrote:

Trond wrote:Interpreters and virtual machines are all crap. They're not fast enough. Sure, you can't expect an interpreter to be fast. Is that an excuse? I sent you a Fiat instead of a Lamborghini you ordered so don't expect it to be fast?

By the way, I can make a working Basic interpreter too (not as obfuscated), but who wants an interpreter?

I disagree with you, vms are not always slow. Depending on how much preprocessing is done, they can be very fast.

A superbly written VM will be about five times slower than average compiled code. If a lot of preprocessing is done then:
1. After a while it's not a VM any more.
2. So the time the preprocessing takes isn't counted?

thefool wrote:

Trond wrote:Interpreters and virtual machines are all crap. They're not fast enough. Sure, you can't expect an interpreter to be fast. Is that an excuse? I sent you a Fiat instead of a Lamborghini you ordered so don't expect it to be fast?

By the way, I can make a working Basic interpreter too (not as obfuscated), but who wants an interpreter?

heh i bet you. Java IS fast. VERY fast!

Don't make me laugh. Try for example Art of Illusion ( http://www.artofillusion.org/ ). It's slow, just like anything else written in Java.

Killswitch wrote:I'm writing an interpreter atm. It's called 'Spectacle', there's some (PureBasic) source floating about on the forums - but it's quite old now. Have a look for it.

I don't think it's that slow!

Probably your interpreter is a lot better than Sun's.

thefool wrote:

MrMat wrote:NetBeans uses Swing in which each gadget is effectively hand-drawn. This is slower but fits in with Sun's "write once, run anywhere" mantra because it is independent of the OS it is running on. Another graphical interface library is SWT, as used by Eclipse, which acts as a wrapper around the native OS GUI routines, just like PB does as is thus faster and feels more "natural". On the downside this approach requires updating the library for each OS it is to run on. It is up to the author what they use.

Wise words, mr. maD

however it runs quite good here, actually.
5 seconds startup isnt too bad.

Five seconds isn't too bad? PureBasic starts in 3/4. Microsoft Word starts in 3. You seriously must be using Firefox too.

venom wrote:I wonder if Trond has the java runtimes install on his machine? He might want to remove that crap.

Then a lot of web pages where people have used Java applets for menus will not work. If Java had a proper garbage collector it would simply delete the programs instead of running them.

Tell me: If Java is such a good language, how come Sun doesn't use it more? After all they made it. Even their own programmers complains about it! ( http://www.panix.com/userdirs/jdw/Sun.Java.Memo.html )

After a while its not vm anymore? 5 times slower? Care to tell me where you got that from? or was it a quick make up on the spot?

its not possible to generalize it to that extent, there's too many factors to outright say "on average its 5 times slower than compiled code"

Heathen

I did not say "on an average", I said "at best". I got that from an article about emulators.

Edit: Starting NetBeans IDE takes "only" 10 seconds for a warm start. A cold start took nearly twice the time.

NetBeans does not conform to the uniform look inside each environment it runs within. This is, in MY OPINION (and only in my opinion) _very_ bad. Some examples:
1. Doesn't anti-alias fonts no matter the setting in Windows.
2. Clicking on window title bar doesn't close opened main menu.
3. The owner-drawn menus doesn't act like normal Windows menus (or any other menus actually) when it comes to keyboard navigation with the arrow keys.
4. Right-clicking on an item in the treeview in the options window gives a grey square.
5. Even manages to TURN OFF font anti-aliasing on the things that is drawn by Windows, totally ignoring the user's setting.
6. In the open project dialog, it doesn't draw the icons which are normally drawn with alpha transparency with alpha transparency.
7. The owner-drawn menus are obvious made to look like real Windows menus - but they fail miserably, especially the right-click menus.
8. In the open project dialog there are two sunken areas - however they didn't think it would look nicer if they used the same kind of sunken border.
9. Displays tooltips on greyed-out toolbar items.
10. In the open file dialog, if you type in a path name in the filename field and press enter, the path name isn't selected.
11. The file browsing window doesn't draw selected files the same way as the native one.
12. In the open project dialog, there is no way of seeing all files, even though you type in a * in the filename edit field and press enter.
13. In the editor, the cursor blinks faster than the native one (or slower, depending on your setting in Windows.)

Straight bugs:
1. In the open project dialog, the browse view doesn't correctly align when using the arrow keys.
2. Every small letter "v" looks like they had some ink leakage at the bottom left.
3. Go to View - Web Browser. MSIE will pop up (if it's set to handle the http protocol). Note the text in the status bar of NetBeans. Close MSIE. The status bar in NetBeans still says "starting browser...".


Other bad things:
1. The loading time of the options window is acceptable, providing it actually loads something. Since every first time you open a submenu in the treeview it lags, the loading time of the preferences window is NOT excusable.


Pluses:
1. Opening the help file is really slow but still way faster than Microsoft Word's help file.
2. Saves the window position correctly, even when maximized. (large plus)


In java generally:
In the swing toolkit:
The "windows style look and feel" doesn't at all feel like Windows and has some major flaws in the looks.

Trond. Do you realize the netbeans ide is much more advanced than the purebasic ide?
It got tons of more stuff. Including a form designer.
Try to launch delphi!

And, i never talked about Java Applets.

thefool wrote:Trond. Do you realize the netbeans ide is much more advanced than the purebasic ide?
It got tons of more stuff. Including a form designer.
Try to launch delphi!

A cold start of Delphi takes 6 seconds. A warm start takes about 3 seconds.

netbeans got more features than delphi, too.
However netbeans start doesnt take that time here, maybe its time to get a new computer?

i hate that smiley... its kind of "i know better than you"...

NOTICE: i use 5.0 [only a beta though. but it probably has more fixed things than your old version]

1) well. not here
2) Yeah thats a little buggie.
3) They work perfectly as i want.
4) Not here. In 5.0 it isnt a treeview anymore, but something better
5) Afaik there is antialiasing here.
6) Definently no problem here.
7) They are very cool here. Looks nice, and they are fast.
They are the same in this version. It got an all new look, you know
9) It does here too. HOWEVER! Firefox does too. EVEN purebasic does
10) It is in this version
11) a little annoying.
12) Thats a little bug.
13) True

And i tested the rest too. I would really like if you got the newest version, even if its a beta and tried that. Its very beautifull, no design bugs and it looks better than many other developer thingies. Very nice.
And the menu's are superb.

Try get the newest version and test it, if you got 10 minutes

JAVA IS SLOWWW!!

thefool wrote:netbeans got more features than delphi, too.
However netbeans start doesnt take that time here, maybe its time to get a new computer?

Well, you said it used ten seconds for you too, didn't you?

What are the features in NetBeans that are not in Delphi? (Except for the slower startup?)

You guys are so silly

NetBeans has more Features than the Purebasic IDE

Absolutly true but in fact it doesn't matter because it's horrible to use because its so slow. If you let it run for lets say 3 hours while doing something else and maximize it again it took me 3 minutes to get up on the screen (on a 2.8 ghz PC). That's simply unacceptable Purebasic needs less than a second to come up again. So better a not that feature rich IDE I can work with than this slow crap.
bye Nik