JPEG license fees?

Karbon · Post by **Karbon** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 3:11 pm

GIF patent in the US has expired I think, don't know about other places..

PNGs are good if they are used for what they were meant to be used for.. PNGs are not "GIF-like" despite people's attempts at making the connection...

Num3 · Post by **Num3** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 3:43 pm

PNG unlike GIF / JPEG is lossless and supports true color, this means the image retains all the original data...

freedimension · Post by **freedimension** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 8:29 pm

GIF also is lossless. You can safe a GIF again and again and again and it doesn't change. Try that with JPEG.

blueznl · Post by **blueznl** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 9:42 pm

jpeg also exists in lossless variations!

freedimension · Post by **freedimension** » Sat May 01, 2004 12:35 am

blueznl wrote:jpeg also exists in lossless variations!

IMHO only the file-format, but not the picture-format in itself

Though it's not obvious at first glance, there still is a difference.

The jpeg-algorithm always converts the rgb-information to YUV better YCbCr (lossy), then applies a discrete cosine transformation to blocks of 8x8 pixels (lossless) and rounds the resulting decimal-values depending on the chosen compression rate (lossy). In the last step they are packed by a simple Huffman-Encoding.

Amiga5k · Post by **Amiga5k** » Sat May 01, 2004 8:39 am

Check out http://www.leadtools.com/SDK/Raster/Ras ... xample.htm (or http://www.jpeg.org/jpeg2000/)
From leadtools' site:

JPEG 2000 employs a new type of lossless compression algorithm than the one used in traditional JPEG compression.
Whereas traditional JPEG compresses images with a scheme called discrete cosine transformation (DCT), JPEG 2000 uses the newer wavelet based compression.

One of the drawbacks of the original jpeg compression is that it tends to cause visible artifacting with varying degrees of lossiness. Images suffer degradation to the point of loss of visibility at extremely high compression rates. Wavelet compression, on the other hand, uses mathematical expressions to encode the image in a continuous stream. Depending on the amount of compression the user applies, the result can be completely lossless (no artifacts) and yet produce extremely small files.

The core jpeg2000 standard seems to be free of licensing trouble, as it says this on the jpeg.org site:

Core coding system (intended as royalty and license-fee free - NB NOT patent-free)

Lossless compression, smaller file sizes AND no royalties\licenses! Sounds like my kind of image format!

Russell

deadmoap · Post by **deadmoap** » Fri May 07, 2004 4:06 am

Damn, I'm going to write my own image compression format that will be really good and get rich.

Amiga5k · Post by **Amiga5k** » Fri May 07, 2004 8:19 am

Good luck! But why would you want to do that when jpeg2000 is royalty free and offers all the benefits described above?

And since jpeg2000 is free, I don't see how you could make any money off of a competing prodct unless it was WAY better (no small feat, I can assure you!)

Let us know if you do come up with anything, though. I'm surprised no one has come up with an Amiga-like HAM8 mode that essentially gives 18 bit color while only using 8 bits....

Later,
Russell

blueznl · Post by **blueznl** » Fri May 07, 2004 10:41 am

gosh, ham18, yeah, there was that... shades of atari 8 bit designs

well, wasn't it something like a pixel set via a table followed by pixels set via 'color delta's' for the lack of a better word?

there was a game that used it... euhm... something top-view where you had to destroy all missiles of some von neuman machine before it would infect the next world, i remember it had a copy protection scheme involving transparant sheets as a 'navigation help'... brrr... planet defender? euhm... (getting old, way old)

NoahPhense · Post by **NoahPhense** » Fri May 07, 2004 10:44 am

deadmoap wrote:Damn, I'm going to write my own image compression format that will be really good and get rich.

lol.. better get moving on your "Quantized wavelet coefficients"..

eg..

http://www.jpeg.org/.demo/FAQJpeg2k/functionalities.htm

- np

NoahPhense · Post by **NoahPhense** » Fri May 07, 2004 11:02 am

Amiga5k wrote:Good luck! But why would you want to do that when jpeg2000 is royalty free and offers all the benefits described above?

And since jpeg2000 is free, I don't see how you could make any money off of a competing prodct unless it was WAY better (no small feat, I can assure you!)

Let us know if you do come up with anything, though. I'm surprised no one has come up with an Amiga-like HAM8 mode that essentially gives 18 bit color while only using 8 bits....

Later,
Russell

I might just be going blind, or it could be because it's too damn early!

But I have yet to find anything on leadtools sight making anything that
they are putting out.. 'FREE' .. including the SDK's... they only seem
to be putting out the SDK's so that you can get an 'idea' of what they're
tool can do.. if you notice on each page of SDK, you will also see a TRY
and BUY link..

On the other hand, the jpeg2000 format, may be free to use, but that has
nothing to do with LeadTools ..

Again, maybe I'm completely wrong. Let us know. As you know it would
only benefit ALL of us. For now, I've converted all my applications jpegs
to gifs. And I have been using EL's new image plugin.. here's an example:

I only had to add one line to use his plugin. UseEC_OLEImageDecoder()

Oh, just rem out the two Mutex lines..

Code: Select all

OpenMutex("sound.b1")

; included files
IncludeFile "frmMain.pbi"

; launch the main window
Open_WindowMain()

  Repeat
    Event = WaitWindowEvent()
    If Event = #PB_EventGadget
      GadgetID = EventGadgetID()
      If GadgetID = #testButton
        PlaySound(0)
      EndIf
    EndIf
  Until Event = #PB_EventCloseWindow

FreeSound(0):; release me
FreeImage(0):; release me

CloseMutex()
End

Here's the include:

Code: Select all

;- Window Constants
;
Enumeration
  #WindowMain
EndEnumeration

;- Gadget Constants
Enumeration
  #imageTest
  #testButton
EndEnumeration

;- Image Plugins
UseEC_OLEImageDecoder()

;- Image Globals
Global Image0
Global Sound0

;- Catch Images
Image0 = CatchImage(0, ?Image0)

;- Catch Sound
Result.l = InitSound()

If Result
  Sound0 = CatchSound(0, ?Sound0)
Else
  MessageBox_(0,"InitSound Error", "InitSound Error", #MB_SYSTEMMODAL)
EndIf

Procedure Open_WindowMain()
  If OpenWindow(#WindowMain, 216, 0, 248, 254,  #PB_Window_SystemMenu | #PB_Window_SizeGadget | #PB_Window_TitleBar | #PB_Window_ScreenCentered , "JL Audio Test - pb")
    If CreateGadgetList(WindowID())
      ImageGadget(#imageTest, 10, 10, 223, 192, Image0, #PB_Image_Border)
      ButtonGadget(#testButton, 10, 210, 70, 30, "test audio")
    EndIf
  EndIf
EndProcedure

;- Images
DataSection
Image0:
  IncludeBinary "C:\source\purebasic\Projects\Image & Sound\JL_BADGE_1024.gif"
EndDataSection

;- Sounds
DataSection
Sound0:
  IncludeBinary "C:\source\purebasic\Projects\Image & Sound\JL.wav"
EndDataSection

- np

Amiga5k · Post by **Amiga5k** » Sat May 08, 2004 9:34 am

Leadtools program costs money, not jpeg2000 itself

(it's royalty and license free, not patent free).

I'm not sure what you mean by 'shades of Atari 8-bit designs'. HAM8 images are quite good (a large leap from HAM6, which only allowed 4096 colors).

DCTV also had a novel approach to image compression: It used the Amiga's normal 4-bit hires mode to display ~21 bit composite images. Anyone who owned one can tell you that it was quite good for the time, and DCTV-Paint is still one of the easiest and most powerful paint programs ever for the Amiga.

Anyways, I digress

Later,
Russell

blueznl · Post by **blueznl** » Sat May 08, 2004 10:26 am

amiga5k, the old atari's had a similar mode, though not on all versions, and several atari desginers ended up working on the first amigas iirc...

but that's a bit off topic

Amiga5k · Post by **Amiga5k** » Tue May 11, 2004 8:01 am

Ah, well that would make sense, since Jay Miner did the graphics chips on all of Atari's systems (until Atari St and later) as well as the Amiga: He was\is a master of getting the maximum potential out of a limited situation (such as very low bandwidth and\or memory).

I can only imagine what he could have accomplished if he had been aroubnd to work on the AGA chipset

But I digress... Those days are long gone, but still very fondly remembered!

Russell