PureBasic Forums - English

@rsts

Its difficult to describe, but Purebasic its self is not approved nor will it ever be, its each use of PureBasic code that has to be approved. These are two different things legally.

Danilo wrote:
So what do you think about an "Annual Support & Service Subscription"?

I am fine with

SFSxOI

Given your requirements, you may want to consider a more industrial strength tool? I can't see PB ever measuring up.

@rsts

We are not the only company with divisions like ours tucked away someplace, but all of them have the same requirements and needs. One of those needs is for a quick prototyping and utility production language that is quickly deployable across multiple platforms which is more scripting based-like, some of them use PowerBasic (we have that too) and some of them use PureBasic as they satisfy the need. We also have C# and C++ (even still have Cobol, Fortran, and a few others, etc....to target each platform OS/use we provide support for such as windows versions, apple's versions, debian, ubanto etc...), but those and their programmers are dedicated to larger or longer term projects most times. Unfortunately there were not (at the time selected) other suitable packages available which filled the 'quick prototyping and utility production' need. However, we will be decreasing use of PureBasic and going more with PowerBasic due to this little fiasco simply because if we ask PowerBasic what bugs were fixed they will tell us (plus its more current in scope in relation to the OS than PureBasic).

It's (sometimes) good and interesting, what people think and write.
But is this thread the right place for a discussion like this?

Marco2007 wrote:It's (sometimes) good and interesting, what people think and write.
But is this thread the right place for a discussion like this?

Probably not... it might be a better idea for a moderator to split this off into a separate topic to be fair

For me, it's quite interesting to see that so much people just see lives in terms of work and money, growing, business, and so on.

Art, craft and beauty, are words that I feel better with.

Edit : bad grammar

djes wrote:For me, it's quite interesting to see that so much people don't imagine that some others just don't see their lives in terms of work and money. Growing, business, and so on.

Art, craftwork and beauty, are words that I feel better with.

djes wrote:For me, it's quite interesting to see that so much people don't imagine that some others just don't see their lives in terms of work and money. Growing, business, and so on.

Art, craftwork and beauty, are words that I feel better with.

Art, craftwork and beauty, sounds good to me. Now if the mortgage company, utilities company, doctors, phone, grocery store, and all the rest agree, then we are good to go

SFSxOI wrote:Art, craftwork and beauty, sounds good to me. Now if the mortgage company, utilities company, doctors, phone, grocery store, and all the rest agree, then we are good to go

Don't forget food !

djes wrote:For me, it's quite interesting to see that so much people just see lives in terms of work and money, growing, business, and so on.

Art, craft and beauty, are words that I feel better with.

It is one side. You create something. But if you start a company/business and sell a commercial product,
there is also another side. It's the business side, where you have to care about paying tax, having
regular income (especially of you do it full time), pay insurances, take care for your own retirement pay.
This is part of being independent. I think everyone here understands that?
And if a product grows over time, the company usually grows as well. Hire new staff and get even
more things done, which make your product(s) even better! It does not mean to hire 50 people, usually
it starts small with 1 or 2 more people. This can only work if you have enough income - much more income
than what you need for yourself. Or you are son of a millionaire/billionaire and pay the staff from your own pocket.
Business has something to do with money, yes. I don't see that as a bad thing. It is the other side of being independent.

It is also a chance for software developers, in my opinion. You are able to sell licenses for your creations world-wide, thanks to the internet
and thanks to the global world nowadays. It is different from a small local shop in town, like a painter or photographer with a small local shop.
Thousands of customers world wide. It is a good chance for you, as a software product creator who sells licenses.

It is different if you have a regular job and run a small business as side job or you code just for fun, I agree.
In this case you have regular income, health insurances, old age insurance, and you pay your tax. But you are not independent then.

Danilo wrote:

djes wrote:For me, it's quite interesting to see that so much people just see lives in terms of work and money, growing, business, and so on.

Art, craft and beauty, are words that I feel better with.

It is one side. You create something. But if you start a company/business and sell a commercial product,
there is also another side. It's the business side, where you have to care about paying tax, having
regular income (especially of you do it full time), pay insurances, take care for your own retirement pay.
This is part of being independent. I think everyone here understands that?
And if a product grows over time, the company usually grows as well. Hire new staff and get even
more things done, which make your product(s) even better! It does not mean to hire 50 people, usually
it starts small with 1 or 2 more people. This can only work if you have enough income - much more income
than what you need for yourself. Or you are son of a millionaire/billionaire and pay the staff from your own pocket.
Business has something to do with money, yes. I don't see that as a bad thing. It is the other side of being independent.

It is also a chance for software developers, in my opinion. You are able to sell licenses for your creations world-wide, thanks to the internet
and thanks to the global world nowadays. It is different from a small local shop in town, like a painter or photographer with a small local shop.
Thousands of customers world wide. It is a good chance for you, as a software product creator who sells licenses.

It is different if you have a regular job and run a small business as side job or you code just for fun, I agree.
In this case you have regular income, health insurances, old age insurance, and you pay your tax. But you are not independent then.

Being independent, with a bigger company ? Dealing with a bigger staff, even one or two, is a big responsibility : you don't have to care only about yourself, and the beauty of what you're doing, but about every people working for you, and the company's benefit. Then it's not only about your personal work and art, but also employees lives, work, and profit. Being "concerned" is what makes a good boss : the company have to be prosperous, and always growing, because people depends on it, and the market ask for it. You have to make hard choices, based not only about quality, but about production and money.

When you understand that you live in a finite world, you see what could be the end if you're not a business genius : after dropping the development reins, keeping a distant eye on your company's products, trying to be a commercial and leader, you realize that you're tired being such a pawn of investors, employees, bankers, that all that you wanted was to express your creativity, so you'll sell after having spent half of your life "acting".

Business is maybe good for some people, OK for that, but not for everybody. As true as you could see the difference between mainstream and craft "hand made" products.

Danilo wrote:if you start a company/business and sell a commercial product,
there is also another side. It's the business side, where you have to care about paying tax, having
regular income (especially of you do it full time), pay insurances, take care for your own retirement pay.
This is part of being independent. I think everyone here understands that?

Sure. But there's no rule or law that says a company has to grow. If Fred is making enough money to get by, and doesn't want to become mega-rich from it, then that's his right. (He may have an ex-wife that we don't know about, that he doesn't want to pay alimony too, LOL).

Anyway, I'm just saying that we don't have the right to make him charge for it, or hire more staff, or do anything. It's his company and his choices alone. If we don't like it, we can move back to Visual Basic or whatever. That's just the way it is.

MachineCode wrote:Anyway, I'm just saying that we don't have the right to make him charge for it, or hire more staff, or do anything. It's his company and his choices alone. If we don't like it, we can move back to Visual Basic or whatever. That's just the way it is.

You are right. The product is generally good, the support here in this forum is good. Nonetheless I see some areas
that could need some improvements. For example handling of bug fixes. This is a very important part of the software,
if you have some thousand customers world wide that use your software every day.
It does NOT mean I want to stop using the product, just see it as a request for some improvements.

Unfortunately I do not have the resources to pay Fred for fixing the bugs in his product as priority bug fixes.

It would be very expensive if one person alone has to pay him for some month. So the idea with sharing the
costs was born, because all users benefit from it. It is what the service & support subscription thing would mean.
This is nothing unusual, many companies with developer products have such a service.

On the other hand, I think waiting for the free-of-charge bug fixes for some month, sometimes years, could be little bit too long. It is just my personal opinion. Could be that I am impatient sometimes.
So with the right resources at hand you are able to get bug fixes asap. If you do not have such resources, you have to wait an unknown amount of time for a fix.

So, at the end it all comes down to a simple request for some improvements, especially for bug fixing. It just would be nice, that's all.

No offense intended! Just a wish for the future of this great product. I hope it is not misunderstood again!


We have discussed some ideas and opinions about this topic here in this thread. We can't do more anyway, so big thanks to all of you!

1-3 weeks with no reproducible bugs before a final release, literally all problems solved... but yeah it's a proprietary product, love it or leave it...