The Pirate Bay case

[SFSxOI]

You all seem like hypocrites to me.

Most of you are software publishers. You are on a forum hosted by a software publisher.

You'd think you all be dead set against piracy in any form, and yet when an action is taken against piracy like the action taken against the pirate bay web site, you not only condemn the action you also voice support for the pirate bay web site!

I wonder how fast the 180s you'll do will be when piracy gets so bad it starts having a direct affect on your wallets.

You misunderstand, or at least you misunderstand me. I'm not rooting for the pirates...to the contrary If you infringe then the rights holder has every right to take action to protect their works. My issue is with the way this verdict was arrived at. With you it seems that "damn the consequences as long as the pirates gets theirs" is the rule of the day. Sure, they got caught and tried, OK then...but at what cost ? A legal system that might one day try you (well, not you personally, but other citizens in Sweden maybe - or heck, if it catches on maybe here in the U.S.) for maybe turning up their radios to loud? (The British version of the RIAA tried that one in England last year - a garage mechanic had the radio turned up too loud and they claimed it was an unauthorized public performance) - well this verdict allows just that very thing to take place. How about if you were not able to sell your software products in Sweeden because there was a functionality similar to something a company made already? Well guess what, this verdict opens that door for any big content software publisher to claim that you infringed and drag your butt into court without having to present any proof what so ever. Actually this verdict just handed over your IP rights to big content, so congratulations, big content is now able to challenge your IP rights based solely upon their say so without any proof what so ever - this verdict is more dangerous to IP rights holders then the pirates were. This verdict allows the absence of proof to convict simply on the say so of big content and a seemingly biased judge. What if you had to stand before that court charged with just about anything under those circumstances? Thats the problem with this verdict, it may have gotten the pirates, but at what price?

Personally, I would rather have a justice system where I had at least a chance to defend myself against presented evidence rather then to try to defend myself against a biased judge in the pocket of big content and the say so of big content. In short, Pirate Bay wasn't adjudicated by the court and legal system, they were tried and convicted by big content. And there in lies the true danger in this verdict, there in lies the price the legal system and the people will pay, a legal system (in this aspect) guided and owned by profit motivated big content. Yeah, so its OK to say the bad guys got theirs, but its not OK to pervert a legal system to do it and set such a dangerous precedent this has set. I can tell you personally, after hearing it from my sister, that the whole IP legal world is watching the case very closely, and are basically horrified at the consequences this has introduced. This was basically a kangeroo court. You see it as a good thing, well I would suggest to you that your happiness over the verdict is based upon a rather short sighted outlook.

So, no, I will not agree with you that it was worth it at any price, it was not worth it at any price. I would have rather the Pirate Bay people did not get convicted then to see any legal system turned into a mockery and sham as this has done, and as a result open the door for the same thing to be tried here in the U.S. You are wrong in your opinion and fooling yourself if you think this is only about piracy. I'm not a hypocrit, and neither are the others, I like others see what is really going on here with the capitulation of a legal system that is supposed to be for the people being turned over to the whims and desires of big content.

[Mohawk70]

if pirat bay is condemned, google also have to be condemned as google makes also money for advertising , even you search illegal material so they also profit from illegal material, they are as guilty as the pirat bay.

so if we follow this , every search engine is guilty. it's a real danger for the way we all use internet, not just a danger for the 3 guys runing the pirat bay.

@case
That is EXACTLY my point. Google (and other search engines) can easily EXCLUDE the Pirate Bay from their index. Just as the hypothetical sign
did not have to be displayed in the first place.

@Tipperton
I am not condoning piracy in any way at all. See my comment to case above.
This will be my last comment on this subject, as I'm not trying to argue, but just make an observation.

[thefool]

Fidel Castro dismissed intellectual property rights as 'imperialist bullshit', that's one of the main reasons a poor country like Cuba has such a good health service.

I live in Denmark where we have an even better health care and social support system, while we certainly don't dismiss interlectual property (A major part of our wealth is due to interlectual property). Its just about finding the balance (Which a country like USA certainly haven't succeeded in)

Fidel Castro is a man i respect (I've been to cuba, didn't meet him though, heh) but with whom i certainly don't share viewpoint on many many things.

[LuCiFeR[SD]]

You all seem like hypocrites to me.

Most of you are software publishers. You are on a forum hosted by a software publisher.

You'd think you all be dead set against piracy in any form, and yet when an action is taken against piracy like the action taken against the pirate bay web site, you not only condemn the action you also voice support for the pirate bay web site!

I wonder how fast the 180s you'll do will be when piracy gets so bad it starts having a direct affect on your wallets.

It's not a case of being hypocritical, I don't condone piracy, but I also don't trust the big mega-corps figures on how piracy affects them.

I am not a very eloquent person... I am not as good as some people at getting my point accross, but I will have a go.

I find piracy (which is not a very good word to fit the crime, especially as nobody is going sailing the seven seas with a patch on their eye shouting "Arrrr Jim lad") is not all it is hyped up to be.

I remember back in the 80's when I worked for a largish English game dev company... many other developers were cracking and releasing our software. We are not talking bedroom coders here, big company's.

So we would retaliate... and release their game... and I would bet my bottom dollar that still goes on today on a large scale! Piracy will always happen for one reason and one reason only... to stiff the competition!

The kids today have grown up in a different way than I/we did... we had no internet, if we wanted music and had no pocket money... we recorded it onto a C90 tape from off the radio. Or we would beg a rich kid to "do us a copy" Same shit right?

But going back to the software theft thing... yes, I am against it on many levels, but this "each pirated copy = 1 lost sale" ABSOLUTE BOLLOCKS (testicles for the non english speakers who are not aware of this word )! There are people out there who will steal for the sake of it... but there ARE a lot of people who will "Steal" software, use it for a while and then purchase and tell their friends which can lead to more sales. So piracy isn't all bad.

But if you want to lay blame at anybody door over piracy, blame the people who "invented" the said theft in the first place... the very people you are indirectly trying to protect, The software publishers/music publishers etc... Need I say more


[EDIT] Gor blimey, in the gloomy morning light before I go to work, my post reads as quite dull and pointless LOL. Just ignore it [/EDIT]

[ricardo]

Why rapidshare.de and rapidshare.com was not sued?

actually rapidshare has been in trouble too in the past. But the difference is that rapidshare took action on the DMCA take down notices they received. In the case of Pirate Bay they did not take action, refused to take action, and even posted the notices on the Pirate Bay web site and specifically said that were ignoring them.

BTW, I find the argument that Pirate Bay and Google both offer the same content and will do the same thing, interesting. If you add "filetype:torrent" to a search using Google, you get exactly the same effect that Pirate Bay did, basically an index of links to torrent files. One person has even shown this point by launching a site called http://www.thepirategoogle.com/ that since April 21 2009 (the day it went live) has had over a million hits so far. In this respect, Google and Pirate Bay are/were exactly alike with not only Pirate Bay 'facilitating' infringement but it seems Google does also within the very context of the verdict for Pirate Bay. I also think the effect this verdict has had is a lot more far reaching then what even the courts realize. So far Swedish ISP's have been nuking IP logs and are no longer maintaining such logs lest they get accused in some way as a result of this verdict for not being responsible for where their users browse or what content they access. If they don't keep any logs there is no proof they had knowledge of anything wrong doing that big content would accuse them of.

Once i sent a complaint (DMCA) to Google about results they show about a pirated download of some software from mine.

They answer that. as the site showing the link do not host the file itself, they (Google) will not do nothing at all and ofcourse they don't ban the site or remove the link, nothing.

Thats why, in first case im happy about Rapidshare, because as you pointed, they removes files VERY fast.

But about this pirat bay, sound exactly as doing the same as google.

And if we add youtube in the discussion, we can find that they allow (they said not, but they do in fact) copyright infringment and they make big profit from that.

If Pirate Bay is bad (and i think its bad), we have to accept that MANY of the big search engines are badest and they will not receive any infraction at all.

[ricardo]

Fidel Castro dismissed intellectual property rights as 'imperialist bullshit', that's one of the main reasons a poor country like Cuba has such a good health service.

I live in Denmark where we have an even better health care and social support system, while we certainly don't dismiss interlectual property (A major part of our wealth is due to interlectual property). Its just about finding the balance (Which a country like USA certainly haven't succeeded in)

Mmm... i don't think that USA has any failure here. The problem is that in most cases the infractors are around the world.
Maybe if Denmark (or any other country) had to rule things (as USA have to do), they find the same problem: many countries do not cooperate too much.

[Tipperton]

please stop discuting topics like that if you can't refrain yourself from insulting or judging people without trying to understand what is said in an objective maner.

I have as much right to be here and post messages as you. What makes you think you have the right to tell me when and where to post or not post messages.

And just because you disagree with what I think is no reason to call it insulting.

[case]

what i call insulting is not what you think , it's what you said let me quote you and tell me if this is not insults ?

You all seem like hypocrites to me.

we're not.

I think that not only do you support and condone piracy but that you are a pirate yourself and are so worried about loosing a valuable resource that helps you in your piracy that you can't even think straight or clearly.

we're not thiefs or criminals

Because it's obvious you feel no remorse or regret over your crimes of theft so you are beyond repenting.

what crimes ?

This discussion is over, I will no long lower myself to talk to scum like you.

scum is certainly not an insult

sorry, but we're not all pirates or criminals , hypocrits or Scum just because we think differently than you, noone of us don't said word that insulting to you, we just talk about the case, not about what we do . you are attacking us, and when things don't turn you're way you just edit the posts and say <withdrawn>

i have nothing against the fact you wan't to take part to a debat, but stay in the limit of courtesy and don't take to YOU the words that are said.

i don't like personal attacks on people just because they think different than me or anyone else.

i said

please stop discuting topics like that if you can't refrain yourself from insulting or judging people without trying to understand what is said in an objective maner.

i don't say to not post in topics you like, just to think twice at what you'll say about people that nicely discusing things . stay cool and all will be fine.

the important word in my qutoe is IF .

thanks, and sorry for the off topic.

[thefool]

Mmm... i don't think that USA has any failure here.

I do.

[DoubleDutch]

I do.

+1