PureBasic Forums - English

Kale wrote:Do we all think that Paul will update freeware tools? He couldn't even do that when they where paid for. Personal i would steer clear of these languages now and advise people to do the same.

Yes its too darn unstable...

Why are people so interested in knowing different compilers? Is it just a case of "write tool for the job" and wanting to have lots of tools or is it employement opportunities? I don't see how something like Aurora would fit into either of these...

I'm just a hobbyist when it comes to programming, my occupation is IT infrastructure and sys-admin so I'm not sure (ie: don't really understand) why dev people are shopping for new compilers.

Doesn't it just mean that your big projects are spread across more platforms?

Or maybe you have libs in different compilers depending on their strenghts, (GUI here, Network stuff there, COM stuff somwhere else) ??

No, no, no... It's not strength, or capabilities, or whatever will everyone usually give as a reason. Deep down, every programmer is still a child and to a programmer the new compiler is just a new toy to play with. That's why we like to have them as many as possible.

Barney

Or maybe you have libs in different compilers depending on their strenghts, (GUI here, Network stuff there, COM stuff somwhere else)

Thats one thing. Maybe another project could benefit from an OOP approach, where something might not benefit from it. Then there is some other things, especially database support. Its probably much easier to write a huge database app in delphi than purebasic for example.

there are many reasons not to bet on a single language.

Kale wrote:Do we all think that Paul will update freeware tools? He couldn't even do that when they where paid for. Personal i would steer clear of these languages now and advise people to do the same.

To be fair, EBasic has been updated and will be updated again shortly with ActiveX support, etc. He has said that the free versions will be updated but paid subscribers will get them first.

theNerd wrote:

Kale wrote:Do we all think that Paul will update freeware tools? He couldn't even do that when they where paid for. Personal i would steer clear of these languages now and advise people to do the same.

To be fair, EBasic has been updated and will be updated again shortly with ActiveX support, etc. He has said that the free versions will be updated but paid subscribers will get them first.

Time will tell. What's the bet Paul will have another life crisis in a few months and ask for money from subscribers? :roll: People like him never change.

Seems the big news was only him changing his business model to free software/paid-support-on-forums.

Well whats stopping people from NOT paying him 50 bucks a year, then to go and download his cluncky software
and get support on other forums like the codingmonkeys site?

Kale wrote:Time will tell. What's the bet Paul will have another life crisis in a few months and ask for money from subscribers? :roll: People like him never change.

agree

Barney wrote:Deep down, every programmer is still a child and to a programmer the new compiler is just a new toy to play with. That's why we like to have them as many as possible.

I guess it depends on the person

I'm a programmer both as a hobby and a profession, but I'm quite happy with the two compilers I use (Visual Basic 6 and PureBasic) and have no need or desire for any more...

utopiomania wrote:Seems the big news was only him changing his business model to free software/paid-support-on-forums.

Well whats stopping people from NOT paying him 50 bucks a year, then to go and download his cluncky software
and get support on other forums like the codingmonkeys site?

Nothing and that's the point. There is no pressure for anyone to pay for the support. Programmer to programmer support can be found on www.codingmonkeys.com.

Tipperton wrote:

Barney wrote:Deep down, every programmer is still a child and to a programmer the new compiler is just a new toy to play with. That's why we like to have them as many as possible.

I guess it depends on the person

I'm a programmer both as a hobby and a profession, but I'm quite happy with the two compilers I use (Visual Basic 6 and PureBasic) and have no need or desire for any more...

I also still use VB 6 fairly regularly. Some of its features cannot easily be beat. It is actually faster than most Indie languages since it shares VC++'s compiler (which is highly optimized.)

I originally bought PureBasic with the hope of writing small compact cross-platform shareware, and 2D and 3D games. I purchased Krylar's and Kale's books and thought they were very good.

For most things, I stick with VB for professional software. At work I use C#\C++\VB6 but for my personal stuff I do want to use .NET for desktop applications just yet. C++ takes too much work to get something that could be done in 1/4 the time in VB.

The truth is, the end user has no idea which language you use (unless they need to download a 20-30 MB .NET runtime.) So in the end it's really about what language will give you great quality and lessen your work load. The VB runtime isn't an issue anymore (1.3 MB) since it's included in Windows ME on up to Vista and if someone wants to support an OS earlier than that there's MoleBox.

As nice as VB6 was\is I just can't help but feel it's a language without hope or a future. If MS could kill it off (by making it incompatible with their OS), they would in a heart beat, but, too much software has been written in it. That makes it kinda depressing to continue using it, though: MS hates it. Everyone should go .NET.

For Indie languages I own PureBasic, Aurora, EBasic (plus IBasic), HotBasic, RealBasic Std (got that license for free) and Runtime Revolution. Sometimes I wonder why I don't just give up and go .NET like 90% of everyone else, and it's been hard to put any substantial time in any one of these languages.

Well, I'm ranting a little but I think some of you will understand. In my heart I am trying to resist blindly following MS on everything they do but then I wonder why I bother. Oddly enough, I've spent more time on PureBasic than even Aurora or EBasic because I went through the books I got. At work I have to go with the standard languages but in my free time I want to resist and go Indie. If only an Indie language really could replace VB 6 for all its ease of use and still give great executables.

As frustrated as I was the past 2 days with Ionic Wind (I've since calmed down considerably and got over my hotheadedness plus Paul and I are on good terms again) I don't want to see any Indie language die. Many of these developers really do put their heart and soul into their work and don't get the returns they deserve. But it takes a lot to compete with Microsoft.

I am trying to learn Aurora more thoroughly now and take it more seriously (I like the unique syntax and OOP) but it really does need a better IDE (I hope a 3rd party developer would write one for it.) I know Paul Squires is working on making FireFly (great IDE) work for PureBasic, FreeBasic and EBasic\Aurora. I hope he gets that soon.

I'm having a difficult time making sense of all this.

First Paul Turley announces he is shutting down the Ionic Wind site because he is not making enough money from it. He makes it sound like he can't even cover his domain renewal and hosting costs (which is probably less than $100 USD per year). This is curious because there always seems to be a couple of new users each week.

Then he switches to a free-ware pay-for-support model, although free programmer-to-programmer support is available at CodingMonkeys.com. Paul makes it sound like this is the solution to all his problems.

So, if you change your business model to target those who are looking for free software, you improve your revenue stream?

Is this just a ploy by Paul? Will he announce a new version of his products in a couple of months, declare the pay-for-support model a failure, and require everyone to purchase new licenses with support (which we had originally)?

I've seen enough of Paul's antics to suspect he has a bigger plan to extract more money from his followers.

pdwyer wrote:Why are people so interested in knowing different compilers?

For me, there are several reasons.

My primary interest is in finding a lightweight cross-platform programming language. By lightweight, I mean I want to create an application that exists as one file (a single executable), requires no installation, and no runtime library or framework. I love applications that come that way, just download them to wherever you want on your hard-drive, run the executable, and the application runs. Want to remove the application? Just delete the file. Want to move the application somewhere else? Just move the file. What can I say, I'm a pretty simple person, and I like simple.

By cross-platform, I mean I would like to be able to create executables for Windows and Linux from the same source code. My interest in this is to support the Linux community and reduce the stranglehold Microsoft has on the desktop market.

Beyond that, I love to learn new things, especially new programming languages. It is very interesting to learn how different languages work, and I believe it makes me a better programmer to be exposed to many languages.

I've also recently become interested in looking for languages that make it easy to take advantage of multi-core processors and multi-CPU machines. Dual core CPU's have become the norm, and quad-core processors will likely soon be the norm. Current programming languages and paradigms are not yet well equipped to take advantage of multi-core processing, but I expect (or hope) this will change soon. This could be some really exciting stuff.

And finally, I'm always looking to support stuff that isn't Microsoft. I use .NET although I really don't care for big frameworks, and I love the Visual Studio IDE, but really hate how Microsoft forces you to do things their way, and especially hate all the little helpful stuff they do for you (that you can't easily turn off).

OK, sorry for the rant ....

Yet he still has the money to pay long distance for internet access "till his cable modem and connectivity arrive" :roll:

From what I read about this guy here and seen of him in the past, I'll never touch anything he's involved with. I hope he never comes near PB.

His forums sound more like group therapy for him, like he's addicted to the comments from his users (victims) saying "that's okay Paul, we'll still be here while you get back on your feet, we know you are trying your best for us" <gag>

pdwyer wrote:...His forums sound more like group therapy for him, like he's addicted to the comments from his users (victims) saying "that's okay Paul, we'll still be here while you get back on your feet, we know you are trying your best for us" <gag>

At times, it seems like a cult over there. Paul can come across as abusive, and yet when be begs for money, his followers trip over themselves throwing money at him. They seem to constantly stroke him, and I get the impression they fear him but need his .... I don't know what, they must be getting something from him.