Looks like Bush won ...

Inner · Post by **Inner** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:44 am

If it's middle ages to;
See murder as repugnant, innocent or otherwise
Have a view that marrage is supposed to be how God defined it to be.
And to have the back bone to stand up vote my opinuion agist those things that try to defile those laws, then so be it.

I'll pitch my tent with George I King of Great Britain 1660-1727 thank you!, of course running my pc back then might be a tad of a problem and the witch hunters will have a field day with me.

Psychophanta · Post by **Psychophanta** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:12 pm

Rings wrote:you living in the midle-age.

Of course. I see it too.

Inner, are you sure God isn't gay?
Hemaphrodite? Bisexual? Trisexual? Infinitesexual? Asexual, perhaps?
mmm.... If He had no sex then, if he was the creator of humans, then why gave sex to them?
Why to invent fairy tales? Don't you have nothing to study, to discover?
Stories and tales are good, beautiful, but to believe in it falls into a serious sickness.

Jesus Christ was a liberator with a strong spirit, perhaps fool or not fool, but: Why Christians catch his figure and turn it?

Post by **Rings** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:27 pm

Psychophanta wrote:Inner, are you sure God isn't gay?

or is it a women ?

Inner wrote:Have a view that marrage is supposed to be how God defined it to be.

ah, i forgot that god told you what marriage is.
(www.godtoldInnerwhatMarriageIs.info)

A german senator (from capitol City Berlin) is also gay, why not ?
And why should he not been marriage ?
It depends also on the definition of Marriage.
And It is not always a religion thing.
In germany you can saves lot of tax if you are marriage. So its a $$$ thing here. And why should pay a gay more tax than a hetero ?
Are not all humans equal ?

Codemonger · Post by **Codemonger** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:06 pm

Rings wrote:
Psychophanta wrote:Inner, are you sure God isn't gay?
or is it a women ?

Inner wrote:Have a view that marrage is supposed to be how God defined it to be.
ah, i forgot that god told you what marriage is.
(www.godtoldInnerwhatMarriageIs.info)

A german senator (from capitol City Berlin) is also gay, why not ?
And why should he not been marriage ?
It depends also on the definition of Marriage.
And It is not always a religion thing.
In germany you can saves lot of tax if you are marriage. So its a $$$ thing here. And why should pay a gay more tax than a hetero ?
Are not all humans equal ?

OK again, this is exactly why the democrats end up loosing. The gay thing has been done over and over again, people have accepted gays in America in the late 90's more than ever before. This is no different than blacks complaining about being minorities and now they are not in America, Arabs are. So what you have is attention seekers who are not in the limelight and wan't to grab attention back. These are special interest groups, republicans have them too, but they usually keep a low profile, thats why they get what they wan't.

Gay rights were never a mainstream issue in early 90's and back. So I would hardly equate middle-ages with people that disagree with gay marriage. The argument is just silly. Also God has nothing to do with Gay marriage, we see this from black democrats in the south of US that were deeply offended by Democrats trying to equate gay marriage to the civil rights movement, these are people that believe in God and don't think marriage is between man-man or women-women.

When I grew up these things were not an issue, obviously things change. But to try to say my values are corrupt and wrong, which have been handed down from generation to generation throughout my family, I think is wrong. I also think that trying to impose a set of values or morales that do not hold in mainstream America, will definately help loose an election in US.

Oh yeah, I remember a while back in Ontario someone married their corporation or something stupid like that... Is that your definition of marriage ? Is it OK to marry your daughter, brother, sister, mother, dad ? Who decides this ? Who gets to impose thier values on one another ? Well I'll tell you who, the voters .. and the voters in US spoke loud and clear on Nov 2. Sorry guys.

Codemonger · Post by **Codemonger** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:07 pm

Psychophanta · Post by **Psychophanta** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:40 pm

Voters = Plebs
Democracy = Plebs tyranny

Old greek invented the democracy. But it was another concept. The nowadays democracy concept is a product from christianism, this is, from sickness. Even some of you don't believe it.

Codemonger · Post by **Codemonger** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:19 pm

Blame it on God and Christianity

that's a good argument.

If you were comfortable with what you believe, you wouldn't feel inclined to insults those who don't believe. So the tables are turned and you feel a need to belittle Christians and conservatives because they disagree with your beliefs.

If it was the other way around you would be crying bigot, racist, discrimination etc.. thats is what you sound like, a hypocrite.

Politically Interesting ... wish democrats would figure it out, because they seem to be fiscally more conservative, which is where the meat and potatoes are

maybe they will get elected next time.

thefool · Post by **thefool** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:23 pm

well if you belive in god, then i bet you should belive to do the best for other people. And dont compare marriage in family to brother/sister as the same as gay marriages..
The gay/lesbian people actually feels atracted to other people just as you and me (i guess you are attracted by opposite sex, with those thoughts) feels atracted to the other sex..

And god, who is it? Something that we made up (i think). i belive in the logic, darwinism etc. You can belive in god, but if you do, follow the bible, and threat other people as you would like to be threated. i dont know why you cant put you in their situation, but you certantly cant.

just my thoughts :roll:

Codemonger · Post by **Codemonger** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:38 pm

Actually I'm Roman Catholic, I have not been to Church in a long, long time. I don't take the bible literally, and I believe creationism is a metaphor and nothing more.

Look, gay marriage was never an issue 15+ years ago, it's something that has been introduced into society recently. People have a high tolerance level, but to tell them that their morales and values are wrong because they believe marriage is between a man and a women is a political disaster. In Canada, these issues are usually dealt with not in the public eye like the US and no one imposed their beliefs on someone else, that is why in Canada liberal agendas usually get easily pushed. Their is opposition but people here don't feel their values being threatened.

In US, special interest groups try to get gay marriage to be brought into elementary schools, and they try to get people to change their values to fit what they believe is right for them.

I think you underestimate my arguments as gay-bashing, which in fact I have relatives who are gay, and even my daughters 2rd grade teacher from two years ago is gay. But he never brought that subject up in class nor did he try to jam it down people throats or parade it with attacks on their value systems. People new it and went on with their lives. The school is a Roman Catholic school too.

Also as far as God goes, I think people equate atheism with being amoral. So in this case your morals are equivelant to the big corporations that liberals love to come down hard on. Corporations are amoral. Over 99% of the world believe in some form of a God, maybe not yours, maybe not mine, but you have to admit taking an Atheist view on things doesn't help liberal political views, now does it.

About the brother/sister thing, I was just showing you why supporting marriage between two asexual couples could be troublesome.

If you do not believe in GOD then marriage should not be an issue for you to begin with, or a wedding for that matter, whether it involves 2 people or 200 people. It sounds like you should support civil unions, because it apparently is neither moral nor immoral and it gives you the financial benefits of marriage. So what's the problem.

thefool · Post by **thefool** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:52 pm

the problem is that my post was dedicated to Inner hehe

If you do not believe in GOD then marriage should not be an issue for you to begin with, or a wedding for that matter, whether it involves 2 people or 200 people. It sounds like you should support civil unions, because it apparently is neither moral nor immoral and it gives you the financial benefits of marriage. So what's the problem.

why shouldnt it? My parents are married and they dont belive in god. So i cant be married cause i dont deeply belive in god?

nco2k · Post by **nco2k** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:01 pm

@thefool

well if you belive in god, then i bet you should belive to do the best for other people.

god isnt our babysitter, we are fully responsible for what happens in this world.

And dont compare marriage in family to brother/sister as the same as gay marriages..

i personally am not pro gay marriage, but also not con gay marriage. i simply dont care. there will always be gay people in the world, if they are married or not, it doesnt matter, because they are still gay.

The gay/lesbian people actually feels atracted to other people just as you and me (i guess you are attracted by opposite sex, with those thoughts) feels atracted to the other sex..

almost every man (especially in the us) likes pr0n with lesbians and one man with two girls.

You can belive in god, but if you do, follow the bible

the bible was written by humans and is only a book. what about other religions? god has many names, but it will always be the same god, no matter what a book says. so i dont give a f*ck about the whole religion stuff, i believe in god my way.

threat other people as you would like to be threated

that is really good, say the same line to bush please.

many people seems to forget what your previous presidents (like j.f.k.) have fight and died for.

just my two cents.

c ya,
nco2k

thefool · Post by **thefool** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:10 pm

that is really good, say the same line to bush please.

i agree. thats why, if i lived in the us, i would have voted for Kerry.

the bible was written by humans and is only a book.

Yes. thats what i think too.

And again:

that is really good, say the same line to bush please.

Well i didnt say i was living with that rule, i just said, that if one where beliving so much so they says "gay's and lesbians should NOT be married, cause god says so", should also read the part about beein as good to anyone as you would like them to be good at you.

i personally am not pro gay marriage, but also not con gay marriage. i simply dont care.

Me to. But i just get a bit upset when people says they cant be married, cause it means nothing if they are and arent. It means a lot to them, so why not. Its not going to hurt me or anyone else if they can. It will only hurt someone if they cant.

PolyVector · Post by **PolyVector** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:59 pm

Marriage should simply be a legal connection between two people... Let everyone's individual beliefs dictate what they do... grrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!

On what I said earlier...
I'm not into conspiracies but I don't know anybody personally who voted for Kerry negative 3 million times... It's important to be educated on the machines that control the voting...
Anybody in their right mind who has read up on how the voting machines work (and I would expect programmers to understand what they read) would know how easy they are to manipulate...
-Every expert has agreed that they are flawed...
-The people who tested them agreed they were flawed but were told "not to put anything negative into the report"...
-The CEO of the company who makes the machines was quoted saying that he would deliver the needed votes to Bush...

I think at this point a legal investigation could help things out...
What a great 'democracy'... We made a 4-year fuss over Clinton getting some action... but we don't care if our votes count...

I do suggest reading up on this at http://www.blackboxvoting.org ...
You can even download the vote-managing software used in the election and decide for yourself if it's flawed.... Unfortunately you can't get the version that was voting down republican lines... or the "rob-georga" patch... but it's still interesting!

Psychophanta · Post by **Psychophanta** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:27 pm

Codemonger:
Sorry if you felt insulted.
What i want you and other to understand is:

- 1)

Codemonger wrote:Blame it on God and Christianity that's a good argument.

Lets suppose there is a God, or several Gods who created Earth and all, ok? Well, I've said lets suppose, this is lets get in the hipotetic case that God in which you (or whoever believer) believe. The question is easy: if we can not perceive it using our simple and mean senses and reason, then it is an invent, a tale, a story. Even finally the story is true or false, but NOW, FOR US, it is a tale. Aren't you agree with this easy argument?
I just call sickness to the believing and living into a tale.
As i've explained, I call tale to something which is an story based in ideas created by humans. Ideas which are always product of our fenotype (icons which are saved in our mind and body; some of them since our birth, and others saved by learning)
Tales created by humans needs, weaks and limitations are DANGEROUS TALES. (I explain this below very clearly in a short phrase in bold face font).

- 2)

Codemonger wrote:If you were comfortable with what you believe, you wouldn't feel inclined to insults those who don't believe.

This is the fact what i really DETEST.
It is not enough if I am comfortable. I repeat: It is not enough if I am comfortable.
I would repeat it millions of times. This fact is what fright to me.
And that is the particular property of the judaeo-christian sickness.
Have you listen when the judaeo-chrisitan Inner said: "...but let us not hope for these things, but pray & repent and maybe those things are to be will not be in our life times."
Repeat: This is what fright to me: pain for others, but i am safe and comfortable.
This matter is the correct part of A. Hitler about generic jewish, for example.
But history is explained by winners, so there are a true part which is hidden.
(There is a funny-history which define this very good: 5 jewish man who are in the savannah, one of them had only 1 leg. Suddenly a tigger appears from the trees, and the one-legged jewish screamed: don't run!, don't run!, it is worse!, tiger will go for those who move!, if you keep still you'll be saved!)

The gay marriage matter, or the Irak war matter, etc, are not the big problem.
The big problem (perhaps since old-Greece epoch) is the religions (sickness, as explained) in general.
And the problem is that sickness breeds more sickness.

Healthy people is the basis for a discussion. There could be different point of views, or differents ideas of life.
But please, always between healthy people.

What i must say is that all the thinkings which goes out from a sick mind will EVER tend to cause havoc to himself and to others.

the.weavster · Post by **the.weavster** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:51 pm

Codemonger wrote: Over 99% of the world believe in some form of a God

"83% of statistics are made up on the spot"

Vic Reeves