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Thank you. Chris told me today that even PB5.20 might be okay but it needs checking. As I have decided to join this funny proguist club of yours, I'll get my keys tomorrow I hope and check it meself.

As I got my keys from Chris, I've discovered another funny thing — there's no 32bit userlib in the current distribution of ProGUI (you can check this yourself at http://www.progui.co.uk/downloads/ProGUI.rar). Why everything should be so difficult about PB userlibs these days?!

staringfrog wrote:As I got my keys from Chris, I've discovered another funny thing — there's no 32bit userlib in the current distribution of ProGUI (you can check this yourself at http://www.progui.co.uk/downloads/ProGUI.rar). Why everything should be so difficult about PB userlibs these days?!

I believe Chris said it was due to problems with tailbite (and ProGUI).

Demivec

right, but I bought it to use userlib*32 with some earlier versions of PB that don't conflict with it. And that's what we discuss here, on the last 2 pages — which 32bit version links with PB. That's what I've tried to figure out beforehand here, with those who supposedly still use the add-on, and with Chris, who told me that 5.20 would probably be okay. So I finally bought it — but there's no such lib in the distribution package! Despite the fact that it IS claimed to be there, both on progui site and in its manual!

Includes DLL version and Userlib version (both 32 bit and 64 bit).

as it is written right now at http://www.progui.co.uk/download.html

Listen, guys, such attitude, it simply isn't serious. That's why I say I've found PB community in the state of obvious decline these days. Sometimes it looks like an amnesia, and sometimes it looks like a fraud.

staringfrog wrote:Demivec

right, but I bought it to use userlib*32 with some earlier versions of PB that don't conflict with it. And that's what we discuss here, on the last 2 pages — which 32bit version links with PB. That's what I've tried to figure out beforehand here, with those who supposedly still use the add-on, and with Chris, who told me that 5.20 would probably be okay. So I finally bought it — but there's no such lib in the distribution package! Despite the fact that it IS claimed to be there, both on progui site and in its manual!

Includes DLL version and Userlib version (both 32 bit and 64 bit).

as it is written right now at http://www.progui.co.uk/download.html

Listen, guys, such attitude, it simply isn't serious. That's why I say I've found PB community in the state of obvious decline these days. Sometimes it looks like an amnesia, and sometimes it looks like a fraud.

@staringfrog: I must have been mistaken. I'm sorry for your loss. I guess you have some more things to talk to Chris about. Good luck with your hunting.

Hunting, indeed! All I want is to get a tool and start using it. 40 bucks? No problem. Talk to Chris? No problem (tho' he still hasn't answer my letter when I found out that the lib we had been discussing was absent). Ask experts here on appropriate version of PB? No problem, again. But still, no answers and no tool to start using it. Funny.

Maybe this thread should be deleted from the forum or at least marked as outdated? I was just browsing the forum seeking for answers to my coding questions. Then I saw this thread and thought: Wow! I might use this commercial product instead of reinventing the same bike for months. Instead, I've spent several days and several bucks on trying to get me answers. No answers, no product.

To top it all, the information about the product discussed in this thread is wrong (as shown above, and you can check it yourself by visiting the product page and downloading the package) and may be qualified in the court of law as commercial felony.

Infer: Freak or Fred, delete the thread. If Chris ever deign to revive the project, he can start a new one, which is only fair.

You shouldn't buy it. Or more accurately, chris should not sell to you. Anytime you make veiled threats, it discourages people from helping/continuing. Buy it or don't. It is what it is, if you don't like it; don't use it -- but don't make threats to get it to where you want it... that's just not helpful.

jassing wrote:You shouldn't buy it. Or more accurately, chris should not sell to you. Anytime you make veiled threats, it discourages people from helping/continuing. Buy it or don't. It is what it is, if you don't like it; don't use it -- but don't make threats to get it to where you want it... that's just not helpful.

If 'it is what it is', it's a fraud. Besides, you all know that the product is no longer developed (for almost a year) and is not fully compatible with the current version of PureBasic (also a commercial product).

Threats? God forbid. It's a statement of the objective fact, no more and no less. Once again, then — Anderson Island Special:

The information about the product discussed in this thread is wrong (as shown above, and you can check it yourself by visiting the product page and downloading the package — one component of the product indicated in its description [namely: userlib 32bit] is missing), and thereby may be qualified in the court of law as commercial felony.

Helpful? I don't ask for help, you especially. At the meantime, I insist on closing this thread as misleading.

And yes, let me decide what to buy for myself, daddio. Or else get outsourced back to what was called Ukraine back then.

And leave the rest to PayPal Dispute Resolution Centre.

Give me a break,

You were given fair warning that it was no longer in active development, for an undetermined time, and the author himself even admitted as much to you when he contacted you.
and you bought it anyway

And instead of patiently waiting for a response, you immediately go off the rails with vague legal threats over what equates to little more than a technical glitch, or oversight on Chris' part. I'm almost afraid to imagine how composed and polite your e-mail was on the matter.

You must be one hell of a customer service nightmare every time you buy something damaged or missing a part.

Zach wrote:Give me a break,

You were given fair warning that it was no longer in active development, for an undetermined time, and the author himself even admitted as much to you when he contacted you.
and you bought it anyway

And instead of patiently waiting for a response, you immediately go off the rails with vague legal threats over what equates to little more than a technical glitch, or oversight on Chris' part. I'm almost afraid to imagine how composed and polite your e-mail was on the matter.

You must be one hell of a customer service nightmare every time you buy something damaged or missing a part.

first, no one gave me a warning, 'cause I was already warned, from what I've read here. Thus, I've read the thread and then asked an apposite question — which (last) version (of PB) supports (static linking with) 32bit userlib (of ProGUI)? No one was sure. Okay. But it was my question, and not your warning. I can read, you know, and I read before I ask. And of course no one has warned me that userlib32 is no longer included in the official distributive of ProGUI (many even didn't suspect this, I'm sure).

second, I was asking the author exclusively about userlib32, so he knew what I needed. And even suggested to use PB5.20 with userlib32. I also asked him where I can get it. He gave me only this link.

third, he was not responding at all after I found out there's no userlib32 in the package. For a day now. And I'd sent him 3 letters before I reported here. Me a bad customer?

fourth, yesterday (after I had paid) he told me he was going to drink tonight and would send me my keys only tomorrow. I said okay, but man, what a service! And what a patience, on my part. Me a bad customer, again?

fifth, I am the suffering side and I am blamed here at the forum for reporting the truth. No one offered their lib, for one, except for stupid insults from some smart alecs (tho' I'm really glad not everyone here responds like you, Zach). That's why, I won't give you any break, until this fraud topic is closed. Why?

Because I'm a newcomer, and such topics as this are not for newcomers. You are glad you've got this library some time ago, and you don't care if newcomers can't get it. This practice of discrimination must be stopped. Either a topic is active and fully functioning, or it should be closed. There are too many topics at the PB forum devoted to third-party userlibs that are no longer supported and don't work properly with the current language version. Every such thread should be marked as obsolete, or closed down. Don't deceive newcomers.

Again, a legal piece of information, for another slow American user here:

The information about the product discussed in this thread is wrong (as shown above, and you can check it yourself by visiting the product page and downloading the package — one component of the product indicated in its description [namely: userlib 32bit] is missing — INTENTIONALLY AND FOR QUITE A LONG TIME), and thereby may be qualified in the court of law as commercial felony.

In other words, you can't take away a part of your product (e.g., in order to make it compliant with another product that still develops — which was in real fact done in this case) and then 1) conceal this and 2) state that this is still the same product of the same value. It's a felony, and it is done for a year now, and you know this. Me a bad customer? A nightmare? Hogwash! Rather, it's you who are tacit accomplices to the obvious fraud.

And that's why you are so displeased with these legal terms you call "legal threats" — which are not threats, as yet, just definitions. But my money for PureBasic and ProGUI is as good as yours, be sure about that.

Sorry to hear about your problems, staringfrog. I understand you, and agree that it is a bad situation (for you and for Chris).

Options I see for you:
- Get refund
- Use DLL version for now, until Tailbite problems get solved somewhere in the future
- Ask Chris for $20 upgrade to Gold license, so you don't need the userlib and can include the source directly (= no Tailbite problems)

I would expect answer on next business day (monday).

Danilo wrote:Sorry to hear about your problems, staringfrog. I understand you, and agree that it is a bad situation (for you and for Chris).

Options I see for you:
- Get refund
- Use DLL version for now, until Tailbite problems get solved somewhere in the future
- Ask Chris for $20 upgrade to Gold license, so you don't need the userlib and can include the source directly (= no Tailbite problems)

I would expect answer on next business day (monday).

Danilo,

thank you. Yes, I'd asked to refund, as it would not feel quite all right to use this add-on after such a story. Don't get me wrong, though. My concern is not personal, and I'm not hurt or anything. But I seriously wonder how such things can happen within an organized community of a well-known commercial product such as PB. Is this a forum for users, or just a hangout for veterans? Why many of the userlibs I'm interested in are forlorn or so slack as this one? Why so many changes to the language are not described in detail anywhere? And so on. It is really bad, 'coz either you control all those things, or they get under someone else's control, and no one feels responsible for anything anymore.

staringfrog wrote:But I seriously wonder how such things can happen within an organized community of a well-known commercial product such as PB.

Well, it is a third party product, and only Chris is responsible for it.
Don't know how many users he has. Personally I am not interested, as it is
Windows only.

staringfrog wrote:Why many of the userlibs I'm interested in are forlorn or so slack as this one?

Most of us stopped making binary UserLibs for PB because we had always problems
with every new version of PB. PB does not support making UserLibs with PB itself, although
it would be similar to DLL compilation path, internally.

Tailbite is a hack. It has also problems with new versions of PB sometimes.
Never used it, as hacks are never reliable and I don't like that.
Depending on a hack always creates problems for every library that relies on Tailbite.
Depending on a hack for a commercial product like ProGUI is a big mistake in my opinion.

You should prefer source code, like most of us do. DLL add-ons should be OK, too.
Avoid Tailbite and Tailbite made libs.
Some source codes are hacks, too, so be careful and aware that it may break with
future versions of PB. For example, codes that import PB internals for object management.
Internals could get changed anytime without notification.

staringfrog wrote:Why so many changes to the language are not described in detail anywhere?

Nobody knows.

Danilo,

yes, I've already learned quite a bit about things you're describing here, and still, a pretty informative explanation and valuable advices, thank you, honestly. Probably you're right, and using any ready-made tailbited solutions for PB is rather a temptation, albeit a strong one, than a solid solution. As I said before, I only wanted to zero in on me code and rely on some decently designed lib for GUI elements, 'coz I really feel sort of tired of developing graphic interfaces as I grow older. A year ago, I've written a piece of code for DOS on old good ASIC, and that was an unmitigated bliss for me

Danilo wrote:- Ask Chris for $20 upgrade to Gold license, so you don't need the userlib and can include the source directly (= no Tailbite problems)

Thats what I would do, for an extra 20 bucks you get nearly 1.5mb of top quality PB source code, then you can pick and choose the parts you want and modify to your hearts content, it would take me years to learn all that stuff Chris knows, that I can quickly learn from. This has provided me with a library of code, and am able to create really pro looking and working GUI apps using this product and the source.

I am sure Chris will continue development, he knows it is a quality product, and if it follows the intended development road map will be a killer addition to the developers toolkit, already is in mine, for all we know he might even be doing just that in his spare time.

Now, as for the 32bit lib, I know it was still available for V1.37 because that was the last one I was using, I didn't download V1.38 so cant be sure on that, you could have asked Chris for the latest 32bit release, I am sure he would have provided it, now that you are wanting your money back you wont need it now.