PureVision!!

netmaestro · Post by **netmaestro** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:06 pm

Great product, easy to use and learn. Well worth the small price.

zikitrake · Post by **zikitrake** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:16 pm

I agree!

dagcrack · Post by **dagcrack** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 10:09 pm

Then tell me why is purevision so good for you.. I tried it and I dont see anything I couldnt do before.. Its just a tool for lazy people ? If you designed your applications by phases, first the gui design, once you're ready, apply the core.. then you wouldnt be crying that much, if you need to add something just do it and then grab that piece of code.. or do it by hand as I do. Dont say purevision is for complex projects because you'll aprove what I said about lazyness. Theres no speed improvement on software development by using this tool, at least not with me. I design my software by phases, and I think thats the correct way of doing it, at least for me.

Anyway, Just ignore my message.
the only good thing I see in purevision is that you can recompile a form with out losing code... but as I said before, I never had that problem with PB standard editor.. which is quite good and if you know how to use it.. then no problem.

Cheers

Just..just tell me whats so good for you about this tool - no I dont want a link to their features page PLEASE.

Its been so spammed arround here..! I like it likes but I dont like it yet..

mlwhitt · Post by **mlwhitt** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:31 am

Dagcrack,

I can see some of where you are coming from. I own a copy of Purevision and haven't really used it to it's potential yet so I believe that it can do a lot of things past just form making but I haven't done so with it myself yet. I would like to find some documentation that does a step by step for the util as the Help documentation while good still leaves a lot of questions if you ask me. I had a time trying to figure out just the form side. But honestly so far my only real complaint (and this may be something that can be changed by the options menu or something) is that I don't like having to use right click to drag around and not being able to right click on a gadget and pull up the properties of that gadget. Once again this could just be my oversite though.

Honestly I still mainly use the Visual Designer 99% of the time, and even then I wish to find a more VB like RAD environment. No offense to Reel's Purevision or Benny's Visual Designer.

mlwhitt · Post by **mlwhitt** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:36 am

I just wanted to make sure that I didn't come off sounding like I disliked PureVision or didn't think it was worth the money because I am sure that it is. My only problem is that I just haven't been able to fully figure it out myself. It does look to be very powerful, I just haven't been able to figure out most of the stuff yet based on the Help File alone. Of course that could just mean that I am a dumb$#@, ha ha.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:16 am

dagcrack wrote:Then tell me why is purevision so good for you.. I tried it and I dont see anything I couldnt do before.. Its just a tool for lazy people ?

Hmm, that's like saying people who use Photoshop are lazy people. You can also create graphics in MS Paint but personally I do my graphic work in Photoshop. It's a professional product and allows those who become experienced in it to do amazing work and make money.

PureVisionXP is no different. It's a professional product for doing professional work. We use it in house on a daily basis and create commercial applications that could not be done otherwise. On a commercial level, "time is money", and PVXP allows us to do our design in a timely fashion and manage the entire project. The sooner we can create a good application and get it to the client, the more money we make.

If using professional tools to make money is being lazy then I certainly don't have a problem with being lazy.

PVXP is not only an amazing tool for professional developers but a great starting tool for beginners since it lays out your code and workflow so nicely. Maybe for the bedroom coder that has no plans to ever do anything with their software, there is no reason to add additional tools to their programming toolbox. For those that want to learn more or take software development to the next level, I certainly wouldn't be caught without PVXP.

You can't really sum it up better than what is posted on the main page... http://purevision.reelmedia.org/ (note: this is not a link to the feature page)

If someone wants to say they like using a particular app, let them. Why do they have to give someone else reasons why they should also use it? Simply try it yourself and make your own decision.
In the end, use what you are most comfortable with. If you want to code everything by hand... do it. If you want to use the Visual Designer that comes with PureBasic... use it. If you want to use PureVision... use it. The final decision is yours and no one is forcing anyone to use anything they don't want to use.

Post by **Dare2** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:44 am

Heya dagcrack,

I think I know where you are coming from because I was there a while ago.

Some thoughts:

PV is stable and it keeps up with PureBasic releases. (Aside: It would be really good if Paul and Fred could somehow reach an arrangement where PV became a part of the PureBasic package. Pipedream, but hey ..)

PV cuts good safe code. The basic code is a very good platform to work from, and the way it is output means your app does not get screwed if you change your form(s).

PV has some decent extended widgets. Use them or not, they're there.

It can speed up development. Using PV to get the grunt work done is a bit like a master chef having someone peel the spuds, do the dishes, etc etc. It leaves the chef free to concentrate on the final outcome.

It is an additional tool in your toolkit. Whether to use it is a bit like deciding whether to walk or drive/ride somewhere. Sometimes you prefer to walk, sometimes to ride/drive. But if you have no transport you have to walk.

I don't use PV all the time, or even often, but I do use it and especially if the screens are going to be cluttered. It helps with the design process, it is an excellent preview, and it gives me starter code.

Brice Manuel · Post by **Brice Manuel** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:59 am

If someone wants to say they like using a particular app, let them. Why do they have to give someone else reasons why they should also use it?

I agree 100%. Such arguments are pure nonsense.

PV is a great app. However, what tool may be helpful and a "must have" for one person, is not necessarily a "must have" for another person. But, that does not mean it is an inferior tool, just that each developer has their own needs and should always use the tools that best meet those needs.

I like PV a lot, but I never bought it. Money is tight, plus since my main interest is games, the built in GUI editor (which is far superior to the GUI editors in competing languages) meets my needs. If I ever had the $$ to spare, I would buy PV, if for no other reason than to support a fellow community member. If I were making large apps instead of games, PV would definitely be a must have for me.

dagcrack · Post by **dagcrack** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:11 am

mlwhitt.. thats close to what happend to me...

I agree, if you like it.. use it, if not, dont. But it is not like photoshop to me.

My point was.. whats wrong with the standard designer of PB apart from not letting you manage projects with out having to recompile and add the new chunks by hand ? - is this a fashion? - For what I could try on purevision, I wouldnt buy it, but thats just me I dont buy 2 wheels when I just need 1. Its a great tool and whatever you want, but I dont see a need for it. There is nothing telling me its a must-have...!

PB · Post by PB » Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:23 am

> We use [PureVisionXP] in house on a daily basis and create commercial
> applications that could not be done otherwise

This statement is misleading, IMO. You're implying that commercial apps
can't be written without using PureVisionXP (or do you mean that ReelMedia
themselves can't create commercial apps without it?).

dagcrack · Post by **dagcrack** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:26 am

Hehheh By the way does PureVision import Visual Designer project files? Because then I would start looking at PV..!

edit: "commercial apps" = another lame stereotype..!? - You can develop commercial applications in full ASM, cant you? whats that about being able to design commercial applications in PV and not by hand or any other editor? hm.. Yes.. I think no one said that you could only do it with PV but, again.. its a sad stereotype. If I was just able to import a pb which contains my forms into PV and work from there.. or import the visual editor file at least.. then it would be better, at least to me.. I have a couple of big forms which im not willing to remake, but yes im willing to have faster methods for modifing them.

Anyway.. lets not flame, yet

mlwhitt · Post by **mlwhitt** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:39 am

Got to agree with PB, though PureVisionXP is a nice RAD tool, I don't think that just by using it people can make applications that they couldn't already code given some extra time.

I think it all boils down to taste. I bought PVXP moments after buying PB. I wasn't very familar yet with the fact that PB already had a decent Visual Designer as part of the package. Had I been aware of this, I would most likely have done more research before buying PVXP. That being said it is very affordable and it does appear to have some nice time saving abilities.

My biggest problem so far is that while there is a lot of documentation in the Help file for PVXP, I wish there were more step by step tutorials for a new user. I know that there are a lot of neat extended gadgets in the PVXP library but I can't for the life of me figure out how to utilize them. But that doesn't mean the product is bad, just a suggestion that could help others like me decide to take the plunge and buy PVXP.

PB wrote:> We use [PureVisionXP] in house on a daily basis and create commercial
> applications that could not be done otherwise

This statement is misleading, IMO. You're implying that commercial apps
can't be written without using PureVisionXP (or do you mean that ReelMedia
themselves can't create commercial apps without it?).

dagcrack · Post by **dagcrack** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:49 am

If you like to programm then you'll programm your own gadget auto-resizing and auto-placement routines.. same for any other feature you might need for your incoming application... This aint reinventing the wheel.. this is programming, people like me likes to create stuff by theirselves (even if its more expensive somehow than getting it already done - I always repeat this but its true.. Im aeromodelist for example, I build stuff from nothing when I could buy big part of that already done.. but the joy is to make it yourself and the payment is good, if it works.. and if it doesnt, you wont rest till it does, call me hard minded, i'll be glad).

I think a guy from here (he speaks portuguese but I forgot his nick) he developed a "template" lib with all the functions he might need, so whenever he starts a new project, he imports the needed functions from his template file .. this is good, so you dont actually really reinvent the wheel.. you just develop your own lib and work from there (by lib I mean an include, but more like a template in this case). Anyway even if time is money, theres something that tells me I should write this, instead of using an already wrote version of that... I dont know why, perhaps because I have full access to the code?. Something similar is what I do, I have a dir with lots of my functions and other dirs with demos and tests i've done for several stuff in PB, so thats basically my template. Theres also many code out there.. for gadget placement and resizing, etc.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:04 am

mlwhitt wrote:Got to agree with PB, though PureVisionXP is a nice RAD tool, I don't think that just by using it people can make applications that they couldn't already code given some extra time.

No one said otherwise. What was said is that PVXP allows you to quickly and easily design forms and manage entire projects, creating nice clean code to work with. People who code under contract or commercially usually are not "given some extra time". I say again, "Time is money"

PB wrote:This statement is misleading, IMO. You're implying that commercial apps can't be written without using PureVisionXP

You took my quote out of context. Reread the entire paragraph and your question is answered.

What I find amazing is how knowledgable some people think they are about things they do not own or use.

Like I have already said... if you don't like something, don't use it. No one has a gun to your head.

The ones that take the time to read the manual, study the demo files and learn what the software is capable of are the ones that enjoy using it.
... and this can be said about any software package.

mlwhitt · Post by **mlwhitt** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:55 am

Do you have some tutorials other than the Help file that may help individuals such as myself that are having problems trying to piece together how to fully use PVXP? I have went through the help files and demos and to be honest I am still trying to figure it all out. As for me this might help me fully appreciate my PVXP purchase. Thanks.

Paul wrote:The ones that take the time to read the manual, study the demo files and learn what the software is capable of are the ones that enjoy using it.