Constructive criticism maybe?

naw · Post by **naw** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:49 pm

@ all,
I'm not suggesting saying nothing - rather be calm, considered and positive in your response. If someone is (for instance) angry and kicking off on the forums, then telling them they're an idiot isnt going to help - 'cos they're beyond listening.

If someone lacks technical understanding, then they only lack knowledge and nobody should be flamed for that. PB attracts a wide range of technical ability, experience, geographies and ages...

Agree with the earlier comment about Forum anonymity being directly comparable with the level of rudness & agression. I think the balance is about right here...

SFSxOI · Post by **SFSxOI** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:21 pm

I think part of it is the fact that the Internet exists at all. Think about it, where else can you say basically what you want to someone else on what may be considered a social inter-personal level in an anonymous manner and if they don't like it or it pisses them off they can't do anything about it really?

If you were face to face with someone and called them a "stupid mot*** fuc***" i'd bet the consequences would be a lot different.

How many times have you caught yourself starting to speak like you see people type on the internet? I caught myself one day in a relaxed mode in a conversation with someone and i let slip a "Oh My God" (as in OMG) at the beginning of what I was saying. I never used that before, I simply do not speak like that.

We post on forums, we twitter, we blog, we email, we text, we use our cell phones, we basically use the disconnected anonymous nature available through other things to form a part of our personal lives sometimes to the point where they become part of us and we start expecting others to be the same way and automatically understand. The human creature was intended to interact physically with other humans, the internet and all the other things that keep us from that sort of interaction over time 'trains' that out of us in some aspects. As a result we lose the need for, or forget, the 'social graces' and physical social inter-personal rules part of our existance to a certain extent, not because we actually re-trained ourselfs but instead because we allow those things to be replaced because deep down somewhere we accept that the eaisier way is by the use of those things that keep us anonymous. So sometimes maybe it really is "meh, i don't see the point." not because they don't or they are trying to be pointless or being critical, maybe its just because they actually really don't.

You ever hear the saying that "We are a product of our environment." ?, well we really are. And if our environment is formed completly or partly of that 'disconnected anonymous' "thing" at some point if will have its effects.

Tipperton · Post by **Tipperton** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:38 pm

naw wrote:Agree with the earlier comment about Forum anonymity being directly comparable with the level of rudness & agression. I think the balance is about right here...

I believe a major part of it is the central focus of the forum and the type of audience it attracts.

Steam attracts game players most of which are probably teen-agers ask a question or state an opinion there and you are far more likely to get flamed, ridiculed, or just get totally useless answers than get something actually useful. Reason: a large part of the audience there hasn't fully matured yet so being rude is viewed as being cool.

Ask the same question on a forum like this one where the focus is programming, and you're more likely to get a real answer or at least an honest attempt. The reason is the audience is older and has mattured somewhat to where treating people with respect actually has some meaning.

SFSxOI wrote:We post on forums, we twitter, we blog, we email, we text, we use our cell phones, we basically use the disconnected anonymous nature available through other things to form a part of our personal lives sometimes to the point where they become part of us and we start expecting others to be the same way and automatically understand.

That is probably where my problem is, the only thing I do is post on forums so this anonymous communication hasn't really sunk in so I tend to takes things said in them more seriously than I should. The result when I forget is I usually feel affronted or insulted in some way and flame back when what I should have done is just ignored it.

naw · Post by **naw** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:52 pm

Ask the same question on a forum like this one where the focus is programming, and you're more likely to get a real answer or at least an honest attempt. The reason is the audience is older and has matured somewhat to where treating people with respect actually has some meaning.

Maybe because the majority of the forum users are that bit older and therefore gained their social skills before being *online* began to erode those (already well developed) social pleasantries

I dont subscribe to any other forums (because the attitude sucks) but also because the spelling is usually so bad

the pedant in me wants to correct the misuse of 'there' and 'their' etc... maybe I should get out more

Tipperton · Post by **Tipperton** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:24 pm

naw wrote:Maybe because the majority of the forum users are that bit older and therefore gained their social skills before being *online* began to erode those (already well developed) social pleasantries

I'll admit (grudgingly) that I hadn't thought of it that way. when many of us were growing up we had to actually interact face-to-face with people, things like texting, and twitter, and forums, and the internet either didn't exist or were very young and not readily accessible.

naw wrote:I dont subscribe to any other forums (because the attitude sucks) but also because the spelling is usually so bad the pedant in me wants to correct the misuse of 'there' and 'their' etc... maybe I should get out more

I visit a lot of forums, but only register as a member on a few. And some others like the Steam forums I gave up on as simply hopeless.

I've heard of two forums that are said to be especially bad, face punch and off topic. I won't even visit those.

/me=shudders

SFSxOI · Post by **SFSxOI** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:44 pm

Tipperton wrote: That is probably where my problem is, the only thing I do is post on forums so this anonymous communication hasn't really sunk in so I tend to takes things said in them more seriously than I should. The result when I forget is I usually feel affronted or insulted in some way and flame back when what I should have done is just ignored it.

When my wife first started using the computer at home, her first visit to a forum somewhere after searching for something on the 'net, she remarked to me "Pod people do exist." I asked what she meant and she said "These people just seem to drone on and on about nothing really like they are mindless and they don't show the slightest bit of respect for each other. Then when they disagree there is this burst of writing stuff attacking each other, like in that movie when they saw a human who had not turned alien there was the loud shrill they screamed and pointed to the person."

I explained to her that not all places on the internet were that way, she eventually learned.

She was right I guess for some areas of the internet. My point is, taking my wifes definition above into account with what you said, then congratulations - your not one of the pod people yet.

the.weavster · Post by **the.weavster** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:48 pm

Kaeru Gaman wrote:as long you can bash someone with words and don't need physical violence

Oh I don't know, I regularly meet people who would benefit from a jolly good thrashing.

Kaeru Gaman · Post by **Kaeru Gaman** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:25 pm

the.weavster wrote:
Kaeru Gaman wrote:as long you can bash someone with words and don't need physical violence
Oh I don't know, I regularly meet people who would benefit from a jolly good thrashing.

srod · Post by **srod** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:42 am

The jollyer the better!

Tipperton · Post by **Tipperton** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:14 pm

SFSxOI wrote:My point is, taking my wifes definition above into account with what you said, then congratulations - your not one of the pod people yet.

My point was that like "pod people" I sometimes take things personally when I shouldn't and then attack the person that posted it rather than attack the idea. I pretty sure I done that to you at least once in our rather heated debates about piracy.

the.weavster wrote:Oh I don't know, I regularly meet people who would benefit from a jolly good thrashing.

Although I don't condone violence in any form as an answer to any problem, every once in a great while I do run across someone that I feel does need it.

For example I once had (please note the past tense here) a friend who thought that when he bought a piece of software, a book, some music, a movie, that it was his and he had the right to copy it as much as he wanted and to do whatever he wanted with those copies from giving them away to selling them.

Needless to say that after he made that pronouncement, I dropped him as a friend and someone I associated with like a red hot potato.

IMO he deserves nothing less than a thorough beating by all the content owners he's infringed on.

In a way he got his though, he's currently serving a 30 year sentence for a sex crime involving a child (under 12 years old), illegal possession of a firearm (convicted felons aren't allowed to own guns), and number of other lesser charges.

srod · Post by **srod** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:22 pm

...he's currently serving a 30 year sentence for a sex crime involving a child (under 12 years old)

He'd be out in a few years for that over here! Even our killers who get life will nevertheless be out free walking the streets within twenty years or so! I don't know, life should mean life for some crimes. Life imprisonment for those arse-hole bankers who wrecked our economies for a start!

netmaestro · Post by **netmaestro** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:32 pm

[OT]
Wow Tipperton that's a lot to pay for smokes. We live within 20 miles of several First Nations reserves and they sell tax-free smokes for four bucks a pack. That's top quality, if you want cheap ones they can be had for a buck and a half.
[/OT]

Life imprisonment for those arse-hole bankers who wrecked our economies for a start

@srod: There can't be enough of those to wreck an economy. Who wants to borrow an arse-hole? :roll:

[edit] Wait, come to think of it I borrowed some arse-holes myself once. They were all .Net programmers...

Post by **idle** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:02 pm

netmaestro wrote:Wait, come to think of it I borrowed some arse-holes myself once. They were all .Net programmers...

No surprise, the crap has to come from somewhere!

Rook Zimbabwe · Post by **Rook Zimbabwe** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:04 am

srod wrote:
...he's currently serving a 30 year sentence for a sex crime involving a child (under 12 years old)
He'd be out in a few years for that over here! Even our killers who get life will nevertheless be out free walking the streets within twenty years or so! I don't know, life should mean life for some crimes. Life imprisonment for those arse-hole bankers who wrecked our economies for a start!

Yep, but he will be walking funny! (OK declasse but TRUE!)

srod · Post by **srod** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:55 am

Yep, but he will be walking funny! (OK declasse but TRUE!)

Aye, and probably too scared to use soap for the rest of his life!