Does PureBasic run by PlayStation3?

oryaaaaa · Post by **oryaaaaa** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:33 pm

Linux will run PlaｙStation3.

I think that a handy, easy-to-use development environment is PureBasic.
i will buy PS3 of 60GB. And, l that installs PureBasic.

Thanks

dracflamloc · Post by **dracflamloc** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:56 pm

No, because it wont be running x86 linux, and also, though its running linux, its probably a very customized kernel with closed software and drivers from Sony. SO even if they had to release the kernel GPL they wouldn't have to give us any drivers or software required to run our own applications.

And it being Sony.... who knows if they'd even release the kernel without a lawsuit...

oryaaaaa · Post by **oryaaaaa** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:13 am

It was unlucky.

The rumor that the driver of RSX is not offered goes around. The kernel is GPL, and the driver seems to become a Black Box. The Linux programming report of PS3 was published in the personal computer magazine of Japan.

DarkDragon · Post by **DarkDragon** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:19 am

PureBasic runs on a XBox with Linux.

aaron · Post by **aaron** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:42 pm

If that is true, it is only because the XBOX uses a PC style processor.

The only way to run it on a PS3 would be to have some sort of virtualization tool (like VMware or something) that lets purebasic think that it is running on a PC. And that tool is pretty unlikely, given the complexity of the PS3 multicore processor.

Joakim Christiansen · Post by **Joakim Christiansen** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:48 pm

But... what is the point having PureBasic on your playstation anyway?

dracflamloc · Post by **dracflamloc** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:55 pm

aaron wrote:If that is true, it is only because the XBOX uses a PC style processor.

The only way to run it on a PS3 would be to have some sort of virtualization tool (like VMware or something) that lets purebasic think that it is running on a PC. And that tool is pretty unlikely, given the complexity of the PS3 multicore processor.

The instruction-set is PowerPC I'm pretty sure. The cores and actual chip complexity would have nothing to do with a purebasic implementation... plus you can't really trust Sony with its hype of the processors anyway. I doubt they are all that much more incredible for a console than a normal processor. Cell is supposed to be for embedded devices and small-scale electronics, at least thats what I managed to pull out of all the Sony BS.

So really what makes a pb implemenation hard is that you'd need to remake probably 90% of the libs. Getting a bare-bones pb compiler to go on the cell probably wouldn't be very difficult.

Nik · Post by **Nik** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:04 pm

If someone ported QEMU to the PS3 it would definitely run just fine...
I doubt though that it will be allowed to develop any homebrew stuff for the ps3 no matter what language you use.

naw · Post by **naw** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:10 pm

Actually, the 8 Processors in the PS3 is the IBM CELL processor which has much in common with IBMs powerful 64-Bit POWER RISC Processor.

Running (I think) at 3.2GHz with 512MB of shared memory.
The Cell Processor is the closest thing we have today to a SuperComputer on a chip (glib marketing

Each CPU can generate over 1 Trillion operations per second which is about 100 times more calculations than a puny 2.5GHz Pentium IV. (I think) the PS3 has 7 DSP CELL Cores on the CPU. Each CELL CPU has between 4 and 16 Cores (depending upon the application of the device)

IBM also make the CPUs in the XBOX360 - Again, these are based on IBMs powerful POWER RISC Processor. The XBOX360 CPU actually includes 3 cores and is a more conventional (but still super powerful) CPU design it also boasts 512MB memory.

IMO - the CELL based PS3 is revolutionary, the XBOX360 is evolutionary. While the PS3 has a more innovative design, the 360 uses faster wider databusses and memory to close the gap.

The CPUs in both these consoles are very similar, but I suspect the techniques required to get the best from the PS3 is more complex than the 360. In any event these consoles are enormously powerful and will leave any PC standing.

It would be interesting if Fred did a port to to PS3 / XBOX360 / IBM AIX UNIX (he's already done it for the POWER MAC) - it would open up lots of new opportunities - but I think too much for 1 man to support...
- be careful of what you wish for :-\

If you're really interested - here's an interesting article:
http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p1.html

[/u]

naw · Post by **naw** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:17 pm

@Arron,
unfortunately - a Virtualisation product like vmware or MS VPC will be of no use - Virtualisation solutions provide a *window* into the existing Hardware - no actual emulation is performed (actually not quite true since vmWare simulates a SVGA and ENT adapter) but does not simulate a different processor architecture.

What you need is an emulator - theres lots of the around, but I doubt any are available for a PS3 or XBOX360. Infact none would be necessary since Fred has ported PB to the Power MAC (doh!) which uses an IBM CPU (that is architecturally very similar to those used in the XBOX 360/PS3).

- Its a shame that Apple got a better deal from Intel (but probably makes life a little easier for Fred in the long-term)

Nik · Post by **Nik** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:21 pm

Well actually it's not a Power architecture but a powerpc based aarchitecture which powers the 360, and yes you will definitley be able to do home brew stuff on a ps3 and run Linux on it (supported by sony). So using qemu Purebasic will run on it and if fred updates the OS X version and implements the new features of version for into ppc code he might as well put this ppc code into the Linux version which would probably be not very problematic since the libraries only need to be recompiled. Here are some links:

The Cell Chip of the PS3:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_Broadband_Engine

The first Linux Distribution officially supported on the ps3:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Dog_Linux and http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/ydl/

Btw porting qemu to this distribution should only be a matter of a recompile, if it's not even available in their repository as a binary

dracflamloc · Post by **dracflamloc** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:42 pm

naw wrote:Actually, the 8 Processors in the PS3 is the IBM CELL processor which has much in common with IBMs powerful 64-Bit POWER RISC Processor.

Running (I think) at 3.2GHz with 512MB of shared memory.
The Cell Processor is the closest thing we have today to a SuperComputer on a chip (glib marketing Each CPU can generate over 1 Trillion operations per second which is about 100 times more calculations than a puny 2.5GHz Pentium IV. (I think) the PS3 has 7 DSP CELL Cores on the CPU. Each CELL CPU has between 4 and 16 Cores (depending upon the application of the device)

IBM also make the CPUs in the XBOX360 - Again, these are based on IBMs powerful POWER RISC Processor. The XBOX360 CPU actually includes 3 cores and is a more conventional (but still super powerful) CPU design it also boasts 512MB memory.

IMO - the CELL based PS3 is revolutionary, the XBOX360 is evolutionary. While the PS3 has a more innovative design, the 360 uses faster wider databusses and memory to close the gap.

The CPUs in both these consoles are very similar, but I suspect the techniques required to get the best from the PS3 is more complex than the 360. In any event these consoles are enormously powerful and will leave any PC standing.

It would be interesting if Fred did a port to to PS3 / XBOX360 / IBM AIX UNIX (he's already done it for the POWER MAC) - it would open up lots of new opportunities - but I think too much for 1 man to support...
- be careful of what you wish for :-\

If you're really interested - here's an interesting article:
http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p1.html

[/u]

Remember these companies are public so it benefits them to hype and over-hype thier products. Do you remember all the hype and numbers they threw out for the PS2? I forget exactly but it was some absurd amount of supposed polys it could pump. It couldn't even get close to thier stated figure.

Nik · Post by **Nik** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:56 pm

Just wanted to make clear that when Fred ports PB to PowerPC Linux and therefor probably also to PS3 Linux you won't be able to use the 8 extra cores without special inline asm or libraries since putting an intelligent vectorization alogrithm is far beyond the power of a one man team. So if you want to use this power you will have to use c/c++ and special sdks but you could probably use Purebasic for non critical tasks like GUI

naw · Post by **naw** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:13 am

Nik wrote:J...you won't be able to use the 8 extra cores without special inline asm or libraries ...

a good point - which is why game developers will probably make better use of the xbox360 than the cell (at least for the first couple or three years).
cell is revolutionary - it will take a long(er) time for the developers to catch up

Nik wrote:...actually it's not a Power architecture but a powerpc...

at the risk of being picky, PowerPC is a subset of the Power Architecture - PowerPC diverged from the the original designs several years ago but have effectively converged again. Cell is based primarily on the old IBM Power4 design with extensions for stuff like the number of registers. Although each CELL Processor contains 8 cores, one is ALWAYS disabled - making 7 active cores. This is because at this number of transistors and clock frequency 1 core is often faulty, so manufacturing yields can be massively improved by assuming that 1 CELL core will be faulty. This is common practice among CPU manufacturers that offer multi-core CPUs with one core disabled thus allowing the remaingin cores(s) to make use of the extra bandwidth and cache that would otherwise have to be shared by 2 or more cores. IBMs Power Architecture and its Cell Offspring are phenominally powerful CPU architectures - it'll be interesting to see how they are used in TVs to SuperComputers. With that wide-range of applications, intels PC only CPUs seem a bit limited in scope.

thamarok · Post by **thamarok** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:12 am

Joakim Christiansen wrote:But... what is the point having PureBasic on your playstation anyway?

Had to bump that reply up

What would you do with PureBasic running on a PS?
Answer: Actually nothing, but it would be cool.

You could make a homebrew game and burn it with the appropriate program and run it on your PS through a disc swap.