I'm waiting for PB 4.20 !!!

[JJ Malone]

Thank you Fred for the enlightment. Yes the module playback is not the main concern anyway, but yes, modplug support is to me much more interesting than playing mo3!!!

The main concern for me is making 3D. Here are the features I absolutely need:
- Physics engine (possibly PhysX software mode is enough)
- Making water plane that reflects + refracts + depth fog
- cubemaps
- stencil shadows (multiple light sources)
- post processing (blur, bloom, DOF, etc...)
- CSG (I just love making my own models using this! no need for .3DS or .B3D sources)
- multi-texture (this should work for models, planes and sprites)
- shaders (I'm not too good in making them, but I guess I could use already built shaders?)

[Fred]

PB builin commands won't be enough for that then, you can look for Irrlicht wrapper.

[JJ Malone]

I've heard that PB has integrated Ogre 3D functionalities. Would it be that it is a restrained, simplified implementation of Ogre?

Thanks for all the good tips !

[Fred]

Yes, very simplified. OGRE is very very big..

[SofT MANiAC]

That's just silly, no-one will use the 'mo3' module to do 2kb module while the replayer will need mp3/ogg decoder (and take quite some kb!).

mo3 it is the standard for casual games (see popcap.com or bigfishgames.com or another ...). All soundtrack for game may be 500kb! bass.dll == 90kb

point was the following: why advise another library to a new user (possibly harder to use, crossplateform issue etc.) when the one provided with PureBasic is more than enough for average use ?

Built-in Module userlib have a lot of restrictions.. How I can create VUmeters for left and right channels, for example? I advise it, coz BASS is a professional multipurpose library, but, yeah, not for noobs, sorry.

possibly harder to use

very many examples on this forum
Also - http://un4seen.com/stuff/bass24-pb.zip
(Pure Basic API for BASS and the BASSenc/BASSmix add-ons.)

crossplateform issue

yep... Only for use in Windows and Mac OSX

- post processing (blur, bloom, DOF, etc...)

PB builin commands won't be enough for that then, you can look for Irrlicht wrapper.

Current Irrlicht wrapper won't be enough for that too

@Fred (about new user)
It seemed to me, that I talk not to the beginner, sorry, ok, I shall shut up

[Mistrel]

Thank you Fred for the enlightment. Yes the module playback is not the main concern anyway, but yes, modplug support is to me much more interesting than playing mo3!!!

The main concern for me is making 3D. Here are the features I absolutely need:
- Physics engine (possibly PhysX software mode is enough)
- Making water plane that reflects + refracts + depth fog
- cubemaps
- stencil shadows (multiple light sources)
- post processing (blur, bloom, DOF, etc...)
- CSG (I just love making my own models using this! no need for .3DS or .B3D sources)
- multi-texture (this should work for models, planes and sprites)
- shaders (I'm not too good in making them, but I guess I could use already built shaders?)

- post processing (blur, bloom, DOF, etc...)

PB builin commands won't be enough for that then, you can look for Irrlicht wrapper.

Current Irrlicht wrapper won't be enough for that too

PureGDK supports both the PhysX (Dark Physics) and Newton physics engines through plugins. It also supports everything else you listed right out of the box.

[JJ Malone]

If I were to go Dark GDK, I would use the C++ edition and forget PB alltogether. Actually I'm more interested in paying for the language, and use it for doing everything. I've spent for plugin DLL's on Blitz3D already (PhysX, Fast Libraries, AShadow) and got everything I could for that language (well not Particle Candy or Sprite Candy).

The reason I am looking at PB is for some key features:
- Inline assembly
- Small executable
- Good support (motivated, updates, new features)
- Future proof applications (will work on XP and Vista)
- Possibility of writing DLLs
- Ogre 3D support

I'm also french speaking, so voilà

So, hopefully, the integration of Ogre 3D to PB will get more intense as the language evolves. Because when I look at the documentation, it's a mix bag between 2D, 3D, etc etc. I really like the way Blitz3D's help documentation is pread out (either by instruction in alphabetical order, or by subject; 2D, 3D, Math, logic). One can easily forget that there is material management in the 3D portion of PB because it is not "included" in the 3D portion of the doc, same with other subjects. That I find a little confusing.

I am really motivated to do some PB, and that is why I will see what 4.20 has to offer.

[X]

I think one of the restrictions is that most games require 1 background music and a few or more sound fx going at the same time. in PB 3.x this was not possible unless you use an FMOD userlib. Have this changed at all in the PB 4.x series?

[JJ Malone]

I think one of the restrictions is that most games require 1 background music and a few or more sound fx going at the same time. in PB 3.x this was not possible unless you use an FMOD userlib. Have this changed at all in the PB 4.x series?

PB should AT LEAST support positional 3D sound + music. That is a base minimum in my book. The bonus would be sound effects like echo, reverb, EQ, etc ...

[X]

Maybe I should be more specific For instance, I have a sound file called rain.wav (it is a loopable raindrop sound effect file), and another file called footsteps.wav (another loopable footstep sound effect file), and one last file called background_music_01.ogg (this file contains the background music).

Now, from what I remember, I could not play those three files at the same time in the PB3.x series. Therefore, I could not use the sound/music library in PB for any games at all. That's what I mean by sound fx At that time, due to the massively less restrictive FMod license (at that time), I used FMod.

But if the 4.x series of PB finally supports the ability to play multiple sound/music files at the same time .. I might be able to use that instead.

[Mistrel]

If I were to go Dark GDK, I would use the C++ edition and forget PB alltogether.

PureGDK is not DarkGDK. It is DarkBasic Professional for PureBasic. This means that it is compatible with all of the DarkBasic Professional plugins, unlike DarkGDK (the C++ version).

The key difference is that DarkGDK uses static linking .libs and is not compatible with DBP plugins or PureBasic; whereas PureGDK uses DLLs and is compatible with DBP's plugins and PureBasic.

[JJ Malone]

If I were to go Dark GDK, I would use the C++ edition and forget PB alltogether.

PureGDK is not DarkGDK. It is DarkBasic Professional for PureBasic. This means that it is compatible with all of the DarkBasic Professional plugins, unlike DarkGDK (the C++ version).

The key difference is that DarkGDK uses static linking .libs and is not compatible with DBP plugins or PureBasic; whereas PureGDK uses DLLs and is compatible with DBP's plugins and PureBasic.

You're asking me to buy Dark Basic Pro, PureGDK and PureBasic? Are you serious? I mean, that is what is written in the PureGDK site; You need DBPro 6.7 to use PureGDK. And what sense is it to use PureGDK if you don't also own PureBasic?

Ogre3D is free, and partly hooked up in PB 4.10. I just hope it get's more support in 4.20 and further.

[Mistrel]

I've licensed DarkBasic Professional components for use with PureGDK in a stand-alone product (it does not require DBP) but as per our agreement The Game Creators is the exclusive distributor. The version you see on PureGDK.com is the upgrade which is designed for users who already own DarkBasic Professional. It's a cheaper alternative for those who already own a license.

You've already been told that the other 3D solutions for PureBasic do not satisfy your needs. If you don't like PureGDK then you are more than welcome to program your own 3D engine in PureBasic. DirectX interfaces are supported and there is plenty of documentation on the forum.

Ogre3D is free but is very limited and incredibly slow in PureBasic and has been demonstrated to be almost 14x slower than PureGDK.

Dreammotion is free open-source 3D engine for PureBasic but it is no longer being developed. http://dreamotion3d.com

There is an Irrlicht wrapper but it is buggy and has been a WIP for nearly two years.

PureGDK uses the DarkBasic Professional 3D engine and is a complete solution for PureBasic. It is very stable and completely expandable. DarkBasic Professional is a commercial product that is always being updated and improved.

PureGDK is in my opinion the best solution available for PureBasic. If you don't like it then there are plenty of alternatives but I can assure you there there is none better.

Ogre3D is free, and partly hooked up in PB 4.10. I just hope it get's more support in 4.20 and further.

People have been saying this for years! How long can you wait?

And what sense is it to use PureGDK if you don't also own PureBasic?

PureGDK is a solution for PureBasic. There is no sense in buying PureGDK if you don't intend to program in PureBasic.

I really don't understand why you're being to negative. PureGDK does everything you want and much, much more.

[JJ Malone]

Ogre3D is free but is very limited and incredibly slow in PureBasic and has been demonstrated to be almost 140x slower than PureGDK.

Fred, take some notes.

One hundred and fourty times slower???????? How serious is that??? In what context??? I absolutely don't believe this sort of selling point!

Please avoid replying to me with absurd claims Mistrel.

[Mistrel]

These are not absurd claims. Kelebrindae from the PureBasic french forum wrote an excellent comparison demo between PureGDK, Dreammotion3D, and PureBasic.

http://puregdk.com/files/upload/abstrac ... motion.zip
http://puregdk.com/files/upload/abstractDance_pb.zip
http://puregdk.com/files/upload/abstrac ... uregdk.zip

On my machine I had up to 700fps using PureGDK and only 50fps when using PureBasic's implementation of Ogre.

Kelebrindae was kind enough to provide the source code for the examples as well:

http://www.purebasic.fr/english/viewtop ... &start=135

I misspoke when I said 140x. It's 14x.

In this case and on my hardware configuration PureBasic's Ogre engine is only about 7% as fast as PureGDK.