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 Post subject: Re: Users complain boring user interface of my apps
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:18 am 
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forumuser wrote:
@idle

Can you explain what we'd get if you do it (for a fee)?
A cross-platform module that we can easily include and
which wraps the internals of sciter into easy to use functions
so that we can focus on GUI design and not prototypes, C library
stuff, etc.?

I really want to see this happening so if you can tell me
(either in public or via pm) how much do you want and
@all_others_who_are_interested:
Please write me a pm as well and how much you're willing
to pay.

I would collect the money afterwards and send it to idle
(either via bank transfer or paypal)... This is just an offer.
If a known user with a longer membership on this forum
wants to do this instead: You're welcome!

Number of people who already contacted me via pm (and an offer): 1

Regards,
forumuser


Hi forumuser

I said it could take 2 to 3 weeks to do and at my cheapest rate of nzd $45 p/h
it's probably more than the community would be willing to pay. ~$2500 - 4000k
Would be a different story if I was going to use it myself, then I'd already have done it.

Fred has indicated that he's willing to look into Sciter so maybe add up what people are willing to pay
and ask Fred to do it instead.

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 Post subject: Re: Users complain boring user interface of my apps
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:37 am 
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I will give it a try if enough people are interested in funding it (please make an offer in PM so I can keep track of it)


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 Post subject: Re: Users complain boring user interface of my apps
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:45 am 
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@Fred

Would you do this as a module or integrate it into the core PB?

I'm asking because some people want to stay (or need to stay) on LTS releases and it could
take a rather long time until they could use sciter (natively through PB) if they would need
to wait for the next LTS release...


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 Post subject: Re: Users complain boring user interface of my apps
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:04 am 
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Probably a lib as I will need to toy with C++


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 Post subject: Re: Users complain boring user interface of my apps
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:56 pm 
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At the risk of making Fred a little testy... Why not just make WebKitGTK+ available for the Windows platform too? Surely the work for WebKitGTK+ must already be done for the Linux version of WebGadet?

This tutorial shows how to extend WebKitGTK+ JavaScriptCore with custom functions.

It looks to me that Sciter doesn't support some modern CSS features like CSS Grid and I imagine it will always be behind the curve vs WebKit in that regard.


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 Post subject: Re: Users complain boring user interface of my apps
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:02 pm 
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the.weavster wrote:
It looks to me that Sciter doesn't support some modern CSS features like CSS Grid and I imagine it will always be behind the curve vs WebKit in that regard.


I am the author of initial proposal of what is known now as flexbox and grid at W3C : https://sciter.com/docs/flex-flow/flex-layout.htm

Flexibility in sciter is still a superset of what browsers can offer now.

If you have markup like this:

Code:
<body>
   <toolbar>..</toolbar>
   <nav>…</nav>
   <aside>...</aside>
   <footer>…</footer>
   <main>…</main>
</body>


then you can define grid layout in CSS by this:

Code:
body {
  flow: grid( 1 1 1,
                  2 5 3,
                  4 4 4); // a.k.a. "holy grail layout"
}
body > main {
    size:*;  // takes all available space.
}


Here is how it looks:

Image

As you see that's a lot easier than what you have in browsers.

Yet, don't forget that desktop UI is bit more than just HTML/CSS.

At some point you will discover that you will need something like this:

elem.popup(popupElem, at)

to show arbitrary DOM elements as popup elements (DOM-element-in-its-own-window) like here
Image

Yet HTML desktop windows: https://sciter.com/html-window/ with support of Acrylic/Vibrancy: https://sciter.com/sciter-4-2-support-o ... c-theming/


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 Post subject: Re: Users complain boring user interface of my apps
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:34 am 
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Hi c-smile,

Purely from a UI point of view Sciter would be a big enhancement for PB but we also have the issue of PB's outdated WebGadget on Windows. CSS Grid landed in most mainstream browsers in the first half of 2017. It's all very well having an alternative way of laying out our own UI but what if we want to display received HTML that uses CSS Grid for its layout? That's really my point, WebKit is always likely to be the better bet in that scenario because it's in Chrome, Opera, Safari...


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 Post subject: Re: Users complain boring user interface of my apps
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:48 am 
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after thinking about it again, I believe it would be better if PureBasic got an improved WebGadget based on the newest version of WebKit or CEF on all platforms (so that the terrible Internet Explorer can finally retire).
There should also be commands that allow JavaScript functions to be called from PB and vice versa PB procedures to be called from JavaScript.

Just my two cents ... Peter

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 Post subject: Re: Users complain boring user interface of my apps
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:59 am 
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Even if an extended webgadget certainly makes sense, the current webgadget should perhaps be retained. With it you can make small hints in an app, for which no Html5 is needed and the code does not inflate unnecessarily.

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 Post subject: Re: Users complain boring user interface of my apps
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:06 am 
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Josh wrote:
Even if an extended webgadget certainly makes sense, the current webgadget should perhaps be retained. With it you can make small hints in an app, for which no Html5 is needed and the code does not inflate unnecessarily.

good point! +1

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 Post subject: Re: Users complain boring user interface of my apps
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:45 pm 
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If we get a high quality webview for PureBasic then Fred and Freak only have one set of Gadgets to keep improving and updating... those in SpiderBasic. At the moment it seems SpiderBasic's gadgets have to be artificially limited in order to maintain compatibility with PureBasic.

Peter's excellent enhancements have already made a number of SpiderBasic's gadgets considerably better than their PureBasic counterpart.


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 Post subject: Re: Users complain boring user interface of my apps
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:35 pm 
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Kiffi wrote:
after thinking about it again, I believe it would be better if PureBasic got an improved WebGadget based on the newest version of WebKit or CEF on all platforms (so that the terrible Internet Explorer can finally retire).
There should also be commands that allow JavaScript functions to be called from PB and vice versa PB procedures to be called from JavaScript.

Just my two cents ... Peter

+1

I would also help funding this :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Users complain boring user interface of my apps
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:33 am 
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Hi to all. I`ve just come across this https://github.com/AvaloniaUI/Avalonia maybe something else we should keep an eye on MIT Licence too. :)

Zebuddi.

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 Post subject: Re: Users complain boring user interface of my apps
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:57 pm 
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Zebuddi123 wrote:
Hi to all. I`ve just come across this https://github.com/AvaloniaUI/Avalonia maybe something else we should keep an eye on MIT Licence too. :)

Zebuddi.


Nuklear is very similar. What I found attractive is that it's a single-header ANSI C gui library. (less than 18k)

https://github.com/vurtun/nuklear

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 Post subject: Re: Users complain boring user interface of my apps
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:25 am 
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Hi, all these are great and nice GUI libraries, but I think the real benefit of a Sciter solution is the ability to scale to whatever DPI you need (Nuklear and Avalonia do not even mention supporting other DPI), HTML and CSS is something you find unlimited tips and tricks in the Internet, many people are already familiar with HTML and CSS, it supports JavaScript and many other well known technologies.

Also, it renders using a Chrome engine. This means using the Graphics card capabilities and using proven render technology. I really prefer such Sciter solution.


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