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 Post subject: Microsoft Legacy PC?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:26 am 
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Suffered major failure of my Windows 7 PC at the weekend. Decided to buy a new one.

Did a little research and found that what seems like all PCs sold now have windows 10 installed and are what appear to be part of the Microsoft Legacy PC programme.

I thought great Legacy PC, Legacy operating system what can go wrong!

Bought PC inserted Win 7 disc and no deal.

Questioned Lenovo help and support and they quite freely admit their PCs are designed to run Win 10 only! You may get Win 7 working but it will face hardware problems.

I did get Linux 32 bit working on the Lenovo 64 bit computer but that was all.

Is there any computer which can be bought today that will run a legacy version of windows? i.e. not part of the Microsoft non legacy programme?

CD

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft Legacy PC?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:50 am 
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Sparse on details. Your HD isn't found? Then you need UEFI driver integrated into Windows 7 setup which is a pain. Or switch bios to legacy.

Windows 7 is not supported on newer hardware, which isn't saying it ain't working.

Anyway, no reason to use Windows 7 nowadays. Just makes life difficult for you. and yes, that's largely due to lack of support. Anyway, the periodically updated Windows 10 setup download is way more convenient than the Windows 7 setup style. 100's of updates after install that take ages to finish if at all. That says more about the lacking setup process of Windows 7. Especially if compared with macOS or Linux. Finally MS catched up a bit with the rest.


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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft Legacy PC?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:00 am 
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I can't find any information about a "Microsoft Legacy PC programme".
What does it mean ?

You might try the 64 bit version of Windows 7 if you didn't try that already.
And you should be able to run Windows 7 inside another OS using virtualization if you really need to.

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft Legacy PC?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:00 am 
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Bios switched to legacy that is how I managed to get Linux 32 bit working on the computer. Strange that Linux 64bit will not install. Seems it cannot gain access to the last 2g of ram.

Win 7 64 bit tried with all switched to legacy still no joy.

As for windows 10 I do not like it. Cluttered interface with nothing obvious.

Take Skype as an example. I noticed Skype running so closed it and it came back.

Questioned Microsoft and was told they did that so I do not miss any important conversations! I do not use Skype so have none to miss. Still would not close. Skype is owned by Microsoft now is it not? I do not like people making decisions for me just let me turn it off!

As for Microsoft catching up I do not agree, if anything for me they have taken a backwards step.

Anyway the question is, are there any new computers available to buy that will run Linux 64 bit straight out of the box and run Win 7 if I want?

CD

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft Legacy PC?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:33 am 
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collectordave wrote:
Anyway the question is, are there any new computers available to buy that will run Linux 64 bit straight out of the box and run Win 7 if I want?

You could do a custom build and start with a motherboard which supports Windows 7.
There are still motherboard manufacturers that support Windows 7.
When it comes to Linux, it might make a difference which Linux distribution you choose.

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft Legacy PC?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:51 am 
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That's the way Microsoft ties manufacturers to itself.
To get a "cheap" OEM Windows license, the manufacturers must keep some conditions.
e.g. for Win Home max 4GB Ram, no SSD and so on and they get it.

Look at Bios. I bet there is a point where you can read : Installed OS or something like that. Not changeable in most cases.
E.g. Lenovo and HP start this behaviour some years ago with their laptops. If you want a laptop without this "Option", they are very expensive.

This is the reason why you should always go to a PC's retailer who will put it together for you.
Cheaper and with more expert knowledge is not possible.

Uh this sounds like advertisement ;)

But remember: Windows 7 is not supported at 14.1.2020 anymore. (And if your CPU (Intel) is >= 6000 Series no Updates will come since 2015 or 2016. M$ stop their support.)

The Linux problem is the UEFI Bios in most cases. Search a distro, that supports uefi and try with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft Legacy PC?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:18 am 
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collectordave wrote:
I do not use Skype

Uninstall it. I did.


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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft Legacy PC?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:25 am 
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Think It is solved.

Dug out my old tower still running win xp. Disabled all internet bits.

Inserted win 7 disc had coffee all running ok.

Just added my backup external and reinstalling my bits and pieces but running ok.

Found Linux mint 19.2 iso supports uefi created bootable usb on mac. So try that next.

Mac seems to be the only one with no problems?

Thanks to all


CD

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft Legacy PC?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:37 am 
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Better to 'optimize' WIndows 10 to your liking. Yes there are (still) many things less than optimal for end users and administrators and a lot of background processes.

You can stop a lot of services, remove a the load of appx crap (look for a powershell script), change the start menu. The state of the OS is a bit sad imho. Resource hungry and still lot's of stuff breaks. The search indexer/engine is mweh, the interface is a mixed bag. It is what it is. Still weird because you would think MS knows what sysadmins in the business/educational world need. But it shows frequently they don't know or don't care. (example? the very inflexible unmanageable start menu which uses some MS-only complex DB format. Overengineered.)

Anyway, at this moment in time it's a better choice than Windows 7 because of practical reasons and (future) software support. And yes, the setup definitely is way smoother than how Windows 7 behaved and much faster to complete. The first user login then is not... 'preparing...'. Those ugly tiles and preinstalled apps. But there are things around it.

To download latest Windows 10 setup for clean install: https://www.microsoft.com/en-in/softwar ... ndows10ISO . Choose version and language and bitness. I advise 64 bit for future compatibility.

If you want plain ISO downloads change your browser user agent to Safari ;) Write to USB with https://rufus.ie .


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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft Legacy PC?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:51 am 
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Rinzwind wrote:
you would think MS knows what sysadmins in the business/educational world need

Bill Gates knows, and he's a programmer... but he's no longer in charge. It shows.


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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft Legacy PC?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:42 pm 
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Would advise only to have Win10 Pro as you have more options you are able to amend. Win10 Home will default many items on or set them unavailable.
Also, very suspicious of Lenovo. They appear to have a huge number of apps. It seems to want to update stuff all the time. Are they updates or are they simply fishing? Most of the Lenovo stuff can be removed or prevented from updating.
If possible for a new PC, put a blank HD and install MS Windows10 Pro. Most of the tempter 'free' apps that come with new PCs or laptops aren't that good and some will be there just to gather your data. If you don't want them, then remove. You can usually find what some of these are doing off the internet or from magazines. Google isn't there to help anymore. Anything you type is linked to adverts now.

Windows10 means you need to switch off quite a lot of settings.
Start, Windows Settings, System :go through the sub-headings and switch off what you do not need
Start, Windows Settings, Apps : ditto
Start, Windows Settings, Privacy : There are lots of settings here. Inking & Typing Personalisation records your key strokes! Switch it off. Check all and every setting on all sub-headings.
Look at camera, microphone, notifications, Account Info, Contacts, Calendar, Call History, Email and Tasks.
Exactly how many of these are you prepared to allow access to your PC??

Start, Windows Settings, Update & Security : ditto check through

Cortana is very, very nosy. It wants to pry into everything. It wants to know everything, it is impossible to disable on Win10 Home and difficult on Win10 Pro. Some prefer
to simply remove it. Your choice. Go into Task Manager and try to disable it, impossible. Same with MS Edge, cannot be deleted. Use a different browser, you've no idea what it's up to.

Life was much simpler in the 'olden' days.

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft Legacy PC?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:19 am 
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As old as I am I have found that just because something is new does not mean better.

I have used windows since it was launched after MSDos 4 through win 286, 386, 98 and so on then started to think what does the new OS give me that I do not have now.

I have found that win10 offers me nothing. It is also a young OS and will probably go the same route as all the others more and more really critical updates till there are so many it is best to bring out windows 11.

I understand future proofing for my computer and the one that runs win 7 has no access to the internet that stops any sneaky updates. It is after all just a tool.

Now I am alerted to Microsoft world domination I just need to keep my eyes open for a good second hand PC ready for when this one collapses or keep checking manufacturers to see if they produce a non Microsoft PC.

Emails etc I do on the Mac or my Linux machine cleaner and quicker and I trust them more than win10.

An easy example is my music I found a Toshiba notebook which must be about ten years old paid €20 for it installed Linux mint 32 bit and it now plays all my ogg files when I listen to music, that is all 20,000 no bother.

I did notice the other day that cash machines still run win xp wonder why they haven't downgraded to win10.

When windows 10 offers more than current operating systems then maybe I will use it.

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft Legacy PC?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:01 am 
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If you dont want to custom build your perfect machine, just buy one?

https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en#
https://www.linux-onlineshop.de/en/Linu ... Cs.tuxedo#

just the first 2 seemingly decent results from google. Personally i prefer to build my computers and then you need to know a bit about uefi and drm but thats all.

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft Legacy PC?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:31 pm 
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I always wonder why most people say that older versions of Windows are less secure? I run both Windows XP and Windows 7 with no issues what so ever. Both with internet access. Then again, I have no interest in porn which I believe is where most people get infected with viruses and so forth. I always use an ad blocker as Google is a bad culprit of shitty scripts that never load or stall a webpage nor do I like their tracking. Plus I just hate ads. Besides that, Avast anti-virus does me well.

Oh yeah. Back to Windows 10. I've seen more issues on Windows 10 than I ever had on XP. Then again, it is still new with all its bloatness. :|

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 Post subject: Re: Microsoft Legacy PC?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:40 pm 
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The older OS's are ticking security bombs.
The latest OS's are ticking snoop bombs.
For home, I use Ubuntu LTS x64.
For work, I strip down Windows 10 Pro and all bloatware that comes with whatever PC under my control.
Especially the many vendor specific upgrade tools.
Way better to check manually.

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