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 Post subject: 3d engine
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:32 pm 
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hi
i remember that someone here anounced his 3d engine that all will be writen in purebasic.
any news?
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 Post subject: Re: 3d engine
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:23 pm 
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There are two "recent" ones:
UnionBytes Engine This is a live project, written in PB
https://www.unionbytes.de/projects/ube
https://www.purebasic.fr/english/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=57823

MP3D Engine. Abandoned? - find @ https://www.rsbasic.de/backups
https://www.purebasic.fr/english/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=43601

Others
Little 3D Engine
https://www.purebasic.fr/english/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3555

3D 2D Game Engine Full Source (does anyone have the source now?)
https://www.purebasic.fr/english/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=60921

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 Post subject: Re: 3d engine
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:45 pm 
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Hello everyone,

I'm currently working on a 3D game engine but it is too specific to my needs to be useful for someone else. After a deep review of the Little3D engine it appear since it used the fixed rendering pipeline of OpenGL it is very limited in comparison of the today standards. So porting it to PureBasic, even if it's possible, I'm not going to do it.

@claudineskiles : What kind of 3D engine do you need ? A 3D graphic engine only or a more elaborate 3D engine that include 3D graphic and 3D physics and all related stuff ?

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 Post subject: Re: 3d engine
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 3:30 pm 
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Using these small 3D-engines is only useful if you want to learn about how engines work and dive really deep in.
Since the big engines like Unreal and Unity are pretty much free and have amazing tools. It's basically a waste of time and effort trying to reinvent the wheel in PureBasic. It's not only about the core engine itself but also about the tools.

If you want to use PureBasic to create games for the fun of using PureBasic. I can understand that and it's fine. But honestly you achieve much better results much quicker using Unreal or Unity or one of the other few big players.
I am using Unreal Engine now for about 2 years and i used PureBasic before for many many years. Actually still use it, but mostly for server software. For example the user account management and authentication system for our current game in development, is made with PureBasic.
But making a full game using it? No, don't bother. In my opinion Fred should drop Ogre support altogether and focus on other aspects like the network library. Also ARM support is a step in the right direction. Finally get get some server software running on raspberry pies, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: 3d engine
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 3:50 pm 
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Thorium wrote:
It's basically a waste of time and effort trying to reinvent the wheel in PureBasic.

If everybody would think like you, we wouldn't invent any new things. ;)

We already had rockets, why does SpaceX still try to invent new things?
We already had many car manufacturers, why Elon Musk wants to re-invent the wheel?


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 Post subject: Re: 3d engine
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 5:13 pm 
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Thorium wrote:
It's basically a waste of time and effort trying to reinvent the wheel in PureBasic.

You have your vision, and I respect it that being said, the main reason why I'm using PureBasic to develop a 3D game almost from scratch (I'm using the OpenGLGadget() provided by PB and I'm using SDL2 for Screen, mouse, keyboard, joystick and maybe more stuff) it's to prove once an for all that the job can be done with PureBasic whatever it takes. I have spent the last 17 years to train my self to program with PureBasic. From my perspective the waste of time will be to move to another programming language. I'm a slow learner so learning C++ or C-Sharp and become comfortable at programming as I'm with PureBasic will take years to master.

But I has to confess that I was little bit naive when I have started with PureBasic because the support of OGRE. My thought at the time was : Cool OGRE seems to be very powerful so I go ahead and start training my self with PureBasic. 17 years later I have realize that OGRE support was too restricted for my needs and using it will require to redo 90% of the job about 3D stuff not related to 3D graphics. For example a simple probing box being used for Obstacle avoidance Steering Behaviors.

So to make a long story short, I'm developing my 3D game (3D physics, 2D-3D rendering, and Artificial Intelligence) and tools with PureBasic almost from scratch. I have fun doing it so...

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 Post subject: Re: 3d engine
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 6:29 pm 
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StarBootics wrote:
From my perspective the waste of time will be to move to another programming language. I'm a slow learner so learning C++ or C-Sharp and become comfortable at programming as I'm with PureBasic will take years to master.


From my experience I can only encourage everyone to pick up c++ for learning purposes. It has a very strict syntax, especially regarding types, and will greatly improve your understanding of programming. On advanced topics like templates you can spend years to learn. The greatest disadvantage is that it is operating on a very low level and definitely not always the best tool in the shed.
Personally, I think that if you are confident in using c++ you can use almost any language. And better than before.


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 Post subject: Re: 3d engine
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 7:09 pm 
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Danilo wrote:
Thorium wrote:
It's basically a waste of time and effort trying to reinvent the wheel in PureBasic.

If everybody would think like you, we wouldn't invent any new things. ;)

We already had rockets, why does SpaceX still try to invent new things?
We already had many car manufacturers, why Elon Musk wants to re-invent the wheel?

No, not at all. SpaceX is not reinventing the wheel. Especially not worse than the solutions that are already present. It's more like trying to do something which has already been done often, is free to use is still actively developed and would take decades to even get to the same level.


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 Post subject: Re: 3d engine
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 7:18 pm 
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gnasen wrote:
From my experience I can only encourage everyone to pick up c++ for learning purposes.

I have some knowledge in C++, but I really prefer using PureBasic. I'm so confident in PureBasic that I translate C++ into PB code very easily and I don't have any performance issue doing that.

And you have apparently miss an important part, I'm using PureBasic to prove it can be done !

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 Post subject: Re: 3d engine
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 12:39 am 
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I urge Fred not to drop OGRE support as suggested, no matter how outdated. It's very useful for orienting (pun intended) yourself in 3D for the first time. It lacks the finesse of other engines perhaps, but it's no less fun to play with and still capable of a lot. And like with everything PB related, you don't have the often deterring/diverting complication of setting up all the toolchain and so forth just to try a thing. You just type a few lines... :)

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 Post subject: Re: 3d engine
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 6:23 pm 
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Hi,
I think all these (abortive) attempts to make alternative 3d engines are a waste of time.
if all those skills had been used to improve Ogre integration, we'd be much further ahead today.
Ogre is a very powerful and relatively light engine, but its integration in PB is very incomplete, the code examples are too old and the documentation is very superficial. This suggests that it is outdated. But I can assure you that if a quarter of its possibilities were exploited, we would have enough to make top games.
Now, I'm the only one who's adding new features.
I understand 3d pretty well, but I don't master C at all.
I find it regrettable to see people who master C and know 3d complain, without having offered their help.
And to those who think that Fred shouldn't waste his time with 3d, I reassure them, he doesn't take care of it (as far as I know), maybe that's why the documentation is so superficial...


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 Post subject: Re: 3d engine
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 7:23 pm 
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pf shadoko wrote:
Hi,
I think all these (abortive) attempts to make alternative 3d engines are a waste of time.
if all those skills had been used to improve Ogre integration, we'd be much further ahead today.
Ogre is a very powerful and relatively light engine, but its integration in PB is very incomplete, the code examples are too old and the documentation is very superficial. This suggests that it is outdated. But I can assure you that if a quarter of its possibilities were exploited, we would have enough to make top games.
Now, I'm the only one who's adding new features.
I understand 3d pretty well, but I don't master C at all.
I find it regrettable to see people who master C and know 3d complain, without having offered their help.
And to those who think that Fred shouldn't waste his time with 3d, I reassure them, he doesn't take care of it (as far as I know), maybe that's why the documentation is so superficial...


The main problem that I have with OGRE integration is the fact that it is closed source. And I have ask Fred about how I can help and I never get any answers. But further more Fred himself tell peoples to go with Unreal and C++ or Unity and C# if they want to make games.

So I prefer to create my own engine with PureBasic that fits my needs and don't care about the OGRE 3D engine integration anymore. And about abortive attempt, we will see if my project will be on that list ...

Best regards
StarBootics

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 Post subject: Re: 3d engine
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 1:58 pm 
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Obviously, if Fred doesn't answer...
what are you missing in terms of functionality?


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 Post subject: Re: 3d engine
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 3:41 pm 
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pf shadoko wrote:
Obviously, if Fred doesn't answer...
what are you missing in terms of functionality?

I gave up on the idea of using standard PB libraries a long time ago, so I don't know what the actual state of these libraries is and what can be done with them. So I can't answer you about that but the main problem that I had at the time I have given up on these libraries was the fact that the solution is too much integrated and "Clé en main".

If I want to use the PB 3D engine, for my needs I have to recreate a Mesh data structure, a custom Mesh loader and interfacing it with manual mesh creation. So just for the mesh I have to redo 90% of the job. Another problem, we don't have an OGRE rendering Gadget so if you need to create a Model editor for your game you will have to create an OpenGL Rendering engine and use the OpenGLGadget(). This means that you have to do 100% of the job.

And I can go on like that the entire day about these libraries. So creating my own OpenGL 3D engine from the scratch is way much funnier, much more flexible and more important I don't have to wait for someone to do something for what I need. But I agree with the fact that creating a rendering engine is time consuming and very complicated. It's not going to stop me.

Best regards.
StarBootics

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 Post subject: Re: 3d engine
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 7:25 pm 
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StarBootics wrote:
the solution is too much integrated and "Clé en main".
I prefer having the key "en main" instead of having the key "dans lec naôn". But it is ever a good sport to redo the 3D functions. We ever need sportive ideas !


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