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 Post subject: Re: PureBasic 5.62 released !
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:07 pm 
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I don't think it's our job to tell Fred how to market his software.
If there were better ways, he'd use them safely.

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 Post subject: Re: PureBasic 5.62 released !
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:25 pm 
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There are tons of possibilities to get some bugs here and there, like extra libraries (for printing, pdf,...), another form editor, advanced compiler options and so on. But managing all this will just needs a lot of time...

...so maybe it could be a try to support Fred by donating some money or by buying his second product SpiderBasic :)


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 Post subject: Re: PureBasic 5.62 released !
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:25 pm 
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Kickstarter - money is given back when amount is not reached
Or: one of three goals is chosen randomly and done so money is kept.
Better than only slow development as current.

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I don't think it's our job to tell Fred how to market his software.

Correct; that's why people complain only about development effort.

And everybody here discusses about how Fred can use more money...


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 Post subject: Re: PureBasic 5.62 released !
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:38 pm 
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If you have found the golden way to earn more money, please let me know !
I am very interested in....

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 Post subject: Re: PureBasic 5.62 released !
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:25 pm 
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Fred wrote:
I won't be lying, PureBasic incomes are not big enough (by far) to hire someone, I would have done it already ! :). Many people are already helping on their own time (Timo, Andre, Comtois, Mesa, etc.) and if some other want to, they can PM me and I will see what can be done 8) .


I use PureBasic commercially and have already licensed a company licence for €500 (beside my private license I already had). I would be willing to pay this amount (€500) every year (!), but only if it includes priority support and guaranteed priority bug fixing within a very short delay time.

And if all PB users that use PB commercially would do the same, we could move on a lot quicker I guess... And all private users should pay around €35-50 every year, that sounds fair to me.

Just my two cents ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: PureBasic 5.62 released !
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:00 pm 
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I am absolutely no fan of subscription contracts (hope this is the correct translation).

I want to buy a product, not rent it for a certain time. However, I am willing to pay for an improvement if it gives me an advantage.

For example, I am also a buyer of the DAW software Reaper. Here you pay for a product of a certain major version (e. g. Reaper 3.0) and get for the purchase price all updates up to version 3.99 for free. If you want to participate in version 4.0+, then you have to pay again a small amount.

This model is ok for both sides in my opinion and can certainly be used for PureBasic. However, it will take some reprogramming on the PureBasic website to ensure that the buyer can only download those versions for which he has paid. The PureBasic installation should also be provided with a watermark of the customer.

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 Post subject: Re: PureBasic 5.62 released !
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:30 pm 
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kurzer wrote:
I want to buy a product, not rent it for a certain time.


As a private buyer, I totally agree with you. But as a developer, what I am with my company, it is very important to have subscriptions which give you a guaranteed base income, what is important for e.g. hiring staff. When you only have one-time sales this is very hard to accomplish, unless you have a successful product for a very wide spread market...

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 Post subject: Re: PureBasic 5.62 released !
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:16 am 
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wayne-c wrote:
kurzer wrote:
I want to buy a product, not rent it for a certain time.


As a private buyer, I totally agree with you. But as a developer, what I am with my company, it is very important to have subscriptions which give you a guaranteed base income, what is important for e.g. hiring staff. When you only have one-time sales this is very hard to accomplish, unless you have a successful product for a very wide spread market...

I, too, refuse to "rent" software unless there is absolutely no other choice. I am still using a few licenses of MS Office 2003, and I am sure MS hates me for it, but it works just fine, so I've seen no reason to upgrade. (I actually prefer LibreOffice except for large spreadsheets, but that's another topic.)

On the other hand, I use many programs with annual maintenance fees, but I have the choice to stop paying those fees. If I stop, I still get to use the s/w, just frozen at the current version without updates.

I think that is a great model. Otherwise, that $100 to Fred pays for a lifetime of keyboard sweat from him. Even if PB's annual maintenance fee was only $10, there's got to be enough people to help. But only he would know how many people are active enough to pony up $10 every year. It needs to be sufficient quantity to replace the attrition from the "I will never pay a maintenance fee" group...OTOH, if you can put up $100 to start, $10 a year shouldn't be that big of a deal.

A huge problem for indy developers is the open source model. Sure, it's "free", but it's also not guaranteed, and unless there's a huge following it's often poorly supported, not structured, or not standard. On the hardware side, that just means those stinkin' [enter country name here where they make $5 per day] companies can copy it legally and be the only people who make money on it. Open source is wonderful for poor college kids, and smart people in poor countries, but few others benefit, so it essentially pays poor folks off the backs of developers sweat equity. Oops, I think my soapbox is showing. Better go.


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 Post subject: Re: PureBasic 5.62 released !
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:47 am 
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There is also no copy protection that can't be cracked, so there is hardly a solution to this problems

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 Post subject: Re: PureBasic 5.62 released !
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:36 am 
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The license model clearly needs to be changed. I am concerned that PB is going to remain a bedroom project forever, when it should be much bigger and more successful than that.

The trouble is, whenever this topic comes up, the thread usually gets locked - even though we're just trying to help. So all I'll say is this: I make a donation each time a new version of PB is released, and I think that, as a matter of decency, everyone who can afford to should do the same.

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 Post subject: Re: PureBasic 5.62 released !
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:33 am 
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Seymour Clufley wrote:
The license model clearly needs to be changed. I am concerned that PB is going to remain a bedroom project forever, when it should be much bigger and more successful than that.

The trouble is, whenever this topic comes up, the thread usually gets locked - even though we're just trying to help. So all I'll say is this: I make a donation each time a new version of PB is released, and I think that, as a matter of decency, everyone who can afford to should do the same.


Maybe because there is no proven "right" way, but opinions and choices. Maybe just accept that Fred made a choice and respect that. After all, it made him survive in an arena where 500-pound gorillas (methaphorically spoken) fight too and some have died in the arena while Fred's choice made PB survive in its niche for 20 years. It's irritating that people still discuss this, considering the time and development both on the market and of PB.

Just give credit to Fred and respect his decisions because thats no small task he did, and if you financially can and are happy, there is always the donation button :)

ps: i vouch for the option to send all PB owners a friendly reminder and greeting including a link to the donation button every 3 to 5 years <3 Maybe with an optional roadmap or plan and a question like "what do you like most? miss most? hate most?" like a survey.

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 Post subject: Re: PureBasic 5.62 released !
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:57 am 
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Quote:
Just give credit to Fred and respect his decisions because thats no small task he did, and if you financially can and are happy, there is always the donation button

So very true. Frederic aka Fred and the team are doing an amazing job. Always keeping the language fresh and up to date.
My sincere thanks to the team. All of you truly makes a programmer's life easier and a lot more fun.
And btw, thank you the for new version.

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 Post subject: Re: PureBasic 5.62 released !
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:37 pm 
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Badas$ Fred & Team, thanks for a new version!

- np


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 Post subject: Re: PureBasic 5.62 released !
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:29 pm 
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Bitblazer wrote:
Seymour Clufley wrote:
The license model clearly needs to be changed. I am concerned that PB is going to remain a bedroom project forever, when it should be much bigger and more successful than that.

The trouble is, whenever this topic comes up, the thread usually gets locked - even though we're just trying to help. So all I'll say is this: I make a donation each time a new version of PB is released, and I think that, as a matter of decency, everyone who can afford to should do the same.


Maybe because there is no proven "right" way, but opinions and choices. Maybe just accept that Fred made a choice and respect that. After all, it made him survive in an arena where 500-pound gorillas (methaphorically spoken) fight too and some have died in the arena while Fred's choice made PB survive in its niche for 20 years. It's irritating that people still discuss this, considering the time and development both on the market and of PB.

Just give credit to Fred and respect his decisions because thats no small task he did, and if you financially can and are happy, there is always the donation button :)

ps: i vouch for the option to send all PB owners a friendly reminder and greeting including a link to the donation button every 3 to 5 years <3 Maybe with an optional roadmap or plan and a question like "what do you like most? miss most? hate most?" like a survey.


As said there is already the donation button
Also if someone interest . it can add "Extra features" to PB buying SpiderBasic which have a yearly update model

also to comment on "kickstarter" issues, definitely is not going to help, as it forces "crowd" to decide, which usually is NOT the right choice !
to my point of view, if in future extra income is needed with extra hiring etc, best option , respecting people who bought it with "forever update licence"
would be to create a PRO version with some more features, both basic and PRO version would be updated but PRO would have the more time/consuming/complex future feautures !!

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 Post subject: Re: PureBasic 5.62 released !
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:22 pm 
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My 2 pennies... there are situations that for sure will show up sooner or later everywhere. Hi-dpi is one of them and is considered a must have by now. Would be nice if a hidpi is handled seamless, ie without any extra coding.

Then theres the wish to add some platform specific support for common os functionality, eg Windows registry.

Both seem to be doable right?

O and some more modern/complex gadgets would be more than welcome. Grid/table control, property table. Possibly custom theming to make the gui look modern. But that needs specific knowledge. Or possibly use existing libraries. IUP seems like a possible fit. Made to work with C and LUA. http://webserver2.tecgraf.puc-rio.br/iup/


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