Blog post !

Developed or developing a new product in PureBasic? Tell the world about it.
HanPBF
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Re: Blog post !

Post by HanPBF »

Hello user_russian,

the "truth" is always a point of view.

OOP
Some including me consider this a good idea bringing at the same time lots, very lots of problems.

GUI-Builder
In my opinion, generating UIs from source code is better.
To use as a beginner a form editor is o.k.; but later it's too slow.

Gadgets/Widgets/Controls
You can give 100 guys a job building up the best controls in the world and they won't fit Your needs!
WPF/Winforms/Java are dead; HTML is the last ui alive.
Sad we have no embedded browser in PureBasic (no, webgadget isn't one. Period).

uint8/16/32/64
Solutions in forum available?
Dec64 possible?

highly competitive compiler
Competitive? Absolutely! How much faster is GCC? My guess it that at such a speed level, including assembler is the choice.
But, for which kind of application/calculation is GCC absoluteley needed instead of using PureBasic?

Team
This is a little product with 3 guys "which are enough" (as Fred said;-).
The boundaries are given:
- no more ressources for development in the future
- no other price model to level up development
- not opening IDE or compiler for third party development.
- nothing else beyond donation "to give this project a kick"
The team is very honest here and I appreciate it even not approving it!

Finally, no one is forcing You to use it, are You?
But at the same time, You can't even "not use it" to show the team better shall something change.
As the price for the tool is nearly free, new people are entering year by year, discovering things.
And the same questions are asked over and over again in the forum.
But changing price: any prove that will work then?


For the team size given, it's good they do not leave their environment!
Examples
- WebGadget: annoying! But there are workarounds -> Vivaldi + WebSocket
- exe speed: assembler
- missing controls: HTML (s. SmartClient from Isomorphic)
- OOP: there are precompilers available if it's so much needed
- GUI editor: use general editor generating XML and convert it (Axure maybe?)


Can You do this with Java/.Net?
- put a portable version of PureBasic onto the server and get the error that's only occuring there?
- Pressing F5 and wait how long? 2 seconds? 3 seconds?
- Buy it, keep it, never pay again for any update?
- Start the PureBasic editor and wait... damn, can't get another coffee
- develop things and they are going to run still in 10 years with only micro changes?


Finally
- PureBasic lacks many things from NetBeans/Java/Visual Studio
- I wouldn't dare to compare it with NetBeans/Java/Visual Studio either;-)
- The team gets enough money from selling PureBasic as it is
- If the team were US citizens "enough money" would not be there drive;-)
- PureBasic is very slowly evolving
- So are the other IDEs, unfortunately;-)
- Yes, the community is very small
- Ever asked a question on stack overflow? Man, they gonna tar and feather You for a dumb question
- No one here is blaming at You for telling Your "truth"; for me, some honestly spoken even rough words should be absolutely o.k.!


So much more to discuss; but will it change anything?
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Re: Blog post !

Post by ccode »

Hello user_russian,

personal mood swings, or what?

Then just do not use PureBasic, if you do not like it.

I like PureBasic. 8)

(I'd like to thank the PureBasic team for the amazing complex QT porting of many PureBasic libraries.)
(->But a little more documentation would be nice.)
Last edited by ccode on Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ajm
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Re: Blog post !

Post by Ajm »

The way I read the blog is that it was posted by freak but produced by Syed Ibrahim (@TI-994A). Maybe I'm wrong.

I've personally been using Purebasic since 2003 and in those 15 years I produced countless tools for the companies that I had been working for.

In 2010 I decided to start my own consultancy company and haven't looked back. I've created several tools that have earnt me a comfortable living.

Dont get me wrong two of the tools I wrote were written using Xojo because at the time they needed to be web applications and I couldn't do it using PB.

I'm am now in the process of creating a new application that uses Spiderbasic as its front end and Purebasic as the backend running on an internal company network serving upto 60 concurrent users.

There are times when I wish PB could do this or PB could that just to make my life easier but I think that's true of any language. I had to use livecode a couple of years back and found it so limited in what it could do I actually gave up with it.

Thanks to the very clever and sometimes funny people that frequent this forum I have nearly always found answers to my questions without even having to make a post myself. RASHAD. JHPJHP, Hex0r and mk-soft continually post fantastic code examples when trying to help other forum members out. My hat goes off to everyone here who are very passionate about Purebasic and spend a lot of their own time helping others.

I hope 2019 brings more improvements to PB and a little more hope to Spiderbasic. Without which my job would be that much more difficult.

P.S If I didn't mention your name above its purely because the list would be too long.

Happy 2019 to everyone here.

Regards

Andy
Regards

Andy

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Re: Blog post !

Post by User_Russian »

Mindphazer wrote:So, why are you still using PB then ? :|
It's not about why I use PB, but about the fact that the blog is written a lie. The blog wrote that PB is the best programming language, and others can not even compare with it. It's a lie!
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Re: Blog post !

Post by HanPBF »

the blog is written a lie
No it isn't. Maybe it's a commercial.
Never eaten the best chocolate in the world?
Never bought the best and forever best computer?

It's like I would say: "I am the best programmer in the world!"... o.k., it's not a good example as this is true :mrgreen:

Saying "it's the best" always implies a context!
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Re: Blog post !

Post by User_Russian »

HanPBF wrote:Some including me consider this a good idea bringing at the same time lots, very lots of problems.
If PB was OOP, then you could choose to use it or not. Now this choice is not - there is no OOP. But it's not about that. In blog all embellished. Written what in reality is not.
HanPBF wrote:Competitive? Absolutely! How much faster is GCC?
With enabled optimization (-O3 or -Ofast) an order of magnitude faster.
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Re: Blog post !

Post by ccode »

@User_Russian

Do not take it too seriously.
It shows that the developers are convinced of their product.

There are many others who describe themselves as "best".

For example, the German band "Die Ärzte" describes itself as the "best band in the world".

And what is not the best food in the world? Or the best product of whatever.

It's just advertising.
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Re: Blog post !

Post by skywalk »

I summarize PureBasic as a "custom" C compiler front end with a nod to BASIC syntax.
The "custom" means no braces!, {..}. No headers. No very long compile times.

LIKE C: (Meaning Not Basic)
*pointers. (Unlike C, the *pointer mark must stay with the variable.)
inline ASM.
NO OOP. (You can build your own OOP if you like.)
prototypes

Great number of libs extending core functionality:
thread, database, maps, memory, and on and on.
Admittedly, the more complex libs are limited and have bugs.
This is the pain of converting the underlying lib syntax to purebasic.

Wish List:
free up development time to focus on the core of PB.
adopt a cross platform/open source ide like Code. Develop plug-ins for PB use.
use a cross platform/open source debugger.
expand the target machine code with LLVM methods.
proper pointer arithmetic
adopt data types used in most operating system api's. uint, ulong, ulonglong, etc.
smarter/faster native string lib. simultaneous ascii & unicode, char and wchar.
import C++ libs! Pick the most common mangling method and go.
add more modern gui gadgets or adopt an open source lib.

So much room for improvement, we can never be done! :shock:
The nice thing about standards is there are so many to choose from. ~ Andrew Tanenbaum
ccode
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Re: Blog post !

Post by ccode »

Compared to many other "Basic-Syntax" - programming languages ​​PureBasic is really the "best". :mrgreen:

But if you really compare "PureBasic" with the big players, with massive company support, you have to stay realistic.

But "PureBasic" definitely has the right to be one of the best "niche" languages.
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captain_skank
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Re: Blog post !

Post by captain_skank »

PB is not OOP - i read this a lot and tbh I dont care. My pb code still runs, its simple to program, read and understand - and personaly I've always found oop a pain in the arse.

Yeah the visual designer isn't truly integrated and doesn't see many updates ( see no win10 template ) so I don't use it, prefering to do it by hand, but for a noob this would be a big win.

My biggest application handles all sales, stock, shipping and manufacturing functions for a £6m a year company and has done for the last 8 years.

What would my (purely selfish) wish list be :
1. A truly integrated visual development environment ( like vb6 used to be )
2. A visual report writer with proper cross platform PDF output
3. Secure db connectivity out of the box.
4. A better webgadget.
5. MS Office connectivity - word, excel and outlook

One thing that I would like to see in 2019 is a formal way of requesting features for future PB additions, so the team can better target their efforts on what the userbase want, and maybe a way to offer bounties to the team or the community.

Anyhoo best of luck to the team and all users for 2019
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Re: Blog post !

Post by deeproot »

Ajm wrote:The way I read the blog is that it was posted by freak but produced by Syed Ibrahim (@TI-994A). Maybe I'm wrong.
:
:
Thanks to the very clever and sometimes funny people that frequent this forum I have nearly always found answers to my questions without even having to make a post myself. RASHAD. JHPJHP, Hex0r and mk-soft continually post fantastic code examples when trying to help other forum members out. My hat goes off to everyone here who are very passionate about Purebasic and spend a lot of their own time helping others.
That was also my understanding when I read the blog - which was just after New Year, a day or so before the start of this thread (but not claiming a prize :mrgreen: ). Overall I agreed with what was said and thought it was pretty good!

@Ajm - I couldn't agree more about help from the forum. As you said, there are many names that could be added. That includes freak of course, I use code he posted a long time ago and it still works great through many versions of PB on all platforms.
ccode wrote:Compared to many other "Basic-Syntax" - programming languages ​​PureBasic is really the "best". :mrgreen:

But if you really compare "PureBasic" with the big players, with massive company support, you have to stay realistic.

But "PureBasic" definitely has the right to be one of the best "niche" languages.
Agreed, a bit of realism is needed here! For a small team to produce and maintain a product as remarkably good as PureBasic is totally astounding and deserves everyone's respect.

Yes, PureBasic is not perfect but I've never seen a language that is! (and I've tried many!) For me it already does everything I need. I don't care too much about big enhancements, just want something that remains easy and efficient and maybe with progressive improvements. From an entirely personal point of view I hope that the team simply continues in exactly the way they've done in the past.
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Re: Blog post !

Post by Fangbeast »

I'm 60 and extremely ugly (Shaddap srod) and I have to work extremely hard to write anything these days that requires brainpower but even an idiot like me (pipe down idle!!) can write 45,000 line programs in pb. That's big for me.

It might take me 3 months but I can do it.

I often need lots of help with things but I can put the help that I get in afterwards.

Where else can you do this? This fast? With this much fun?

There are ALWAYS workarounds to PB that the libraries may not support and I get myself in trouble often because I may not understand them but these "workarounds" always work in the PB environment without issues. And the good people of the forums are always willing to help upgrade them to never versions of the compiler.

So who cares if pb doesn't have this or that natively, we have it in tons of third party code. This place is like my third playground (If you don't count crochet and goats)
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Re: Blog post !

Post by NicTheQuick »

Fangbeast wrote:So who cares if pb doesn't have this or that natively, we have it in tons of third party code. This place is like my third playground (If you don't count crochet and goats)
Some things you can not easily add with a third party library or include.
I am still waiting for native unsigned integers and Maps with integer keys instead of strings. :wink:
The english grammar is freeware, you can use it freely - But it's not Open Source, i.e. you can not change it or publish it in altered way.
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Re: Blog post !

Post by srod »

Fangbeast wrote:I'm 60 and extremely ugly (Shaddap srod)...
I didn't say a cotton picking word! I did write some down mind, but I don't think that counts because I can't read my own writing!
Fangbeast wrote:...but even an idiot like me (pipe down idle!!) can write 45,000 line programs in pb.
Yes but 44999 comments and a single 'If' statement without a corresponding EndIf doesn't really add up to much! When will you learn? :D
Fangbeast wrote:This place is like my third playground (If you don't count crochet and goats)
Can't imagine the goats would play very nicely if you've skinned and scalped them for your crochet yarn! Surely you haven't run out of sheep? What happened to the three dozen or so Santa left you or did you finally twig that they weren't sheep at all, but heavily disguised and completely knackered reindeer and four pairs of his discarded underpants disguised as a completely knackered reindeer masquerading as a sheep! I told him you'd figure it out eventually, but he wouldn't listen. Stupid Santa!

Anyhow, happy new year Fangles! :)
I may look like a mule, but I'm not a complete ass.
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Re: Blog post !

Post by Little John »

srod wrote:because I can't read my own writing!
So you get perfect analog cryptography for free. Cool! :D
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