It's understandable, but doesn't mean it's meaningless. It's actually very simple. So simple I will not say it again especially because it's pointless and not changing anything as everyone here should know by now.nco2k wrote: the last time i compiled an ascii exe was 10 years ago. i dont understand what the fuss is all about.
PureBasic 5.50 final is out !
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Re: PureBasic 5.50 beta 1 is out
Re: PureBasic 5.50 beta 1 is out
Just to throw my opinion out there...
Since the team has decided to make this change in PB, I wish they would take it ALL THE WAY and support FULL Unicode, perhaps through native UTF-8 strings.
Fixed 16-bit characters are an improvement over 8-bit, but still an incomplete subset of true Unicode.
UTF-8 strings would support all characters, without "wasted" space for 0x00 bytes, still be null-byte-terminated, AND still be backwards-compatible with ASCII files and libs. Plus most modern libs (in my experience) expect UTF-8 strings in/out.
This webpage has many good points: http://utf8everywhere.org/
Since the team has decided to make this change in PB, I wish they would take it ALL THE WAY and support FULL Unicode, perhaps through native UTF-8 strings.
Fixed 16-bit characters are an improvement over 8-bit, but still an incomplete subset of true Unicode.
UTF-8 strings would support all characters, without "wasted" space for 0x00 bytes, still be null-byte-terminated, AND still be backwards-compatible with ASCII files and libs. Plus most modern libs (in my experience) expect UTF-8 strings in/out.
This webpage has many good points: http://utf8everywhere.org/
Re: PureBasic 5.50 beta 1 is out
UTF-8 is great, but for internal representation and comutation it has a big weakness:
You can't seek directly to a specific char, which is a problem for many string functions which requiers an offset to a char. You need to parse all the char to get the right index, which is a bottleneck when dealing with a lot of string op.
Also, It's only shorter for english like language. Chineese/Japanese etc. are actually longer, up to 4 bytes per char.
UTF-8 fits very well for files and API input/output and that's where it's mainly used. OS X uses its own NSString class, Windows uses UTF-16 for its internal API, and it's a good choice for speed.
BTW, currently File lib is already backward compatiable, UTF-8 is the default for all read/write file string ops. Same for XML/Json/Pref libs
You can't seek directly to a specific char, which is a problem for many string functions which requiers an offset to a char. You need to parse all the char to get the right index, which is a bottleneck when dealing with a lot of string op.
Also, It's only shorter for english like language. Chineese/Japanese etc. are actually longer, up to 4 bytes per char.
UTF-8 fits very well for files and API input/output and that's where it's mainly used. OS X uses its own NSString class, Windows uses UTF-16 for its internal API, and it's a good choice for speed.
BTW, currently File lib is already backward compatiable, UTF-8 is the default for all read/write file string ops. Same for XML/Json/Pref libs
Re: PureBasic 5.50 beta 1 is out
Isn't this always the case with PureBasic ?Fred wrote:You can't seek directly to a specific char, which is a problem for many string functions which requiers an offset to a char. You need to parse all the char to get the right index, which is a bottleneck when dealing with a lot of string op.
As far as I understand PB doesn't store the length of the string so it would have to scan all characters any way to determine if the specified index isn't passed the length of the string.
I'm happy by the way internal ascii representation is dropped.
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Re: PureBasic 5.50 beta 1 is out
Yes and I appreciate those defaults!Fred wrote:BTW, currently File lib is already backward compatiable, UTF-8 is the default for all read/write file string ops. Same for XML/Json/Pref libs
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Re: PureBasic 5.50 beta 1 is out
Why ? Was it hurting you even if you could just ignore its presence and use unicode only like there's no tomorrow ?wilbert wrote: I'm happy by the way internal ascii representation is dropped.
Re: PureBasic 5.50 beta 1 is out
I like optimizations using assembly code.DontTalkToMe wrote:Why ? Was it hurting you even if you could just ignore its presence and use unicode only like there's no tomorrow ?
So far, if I wanted to post some string related asm code to the forum, I had to split the code into 4 different versions and use CompilerIf to select the right section.
x86, ascii
x86, unicode
x64, ascii
x64 unicode
It's very nice to be able drop 2 out of 4 .
Besides that, almost anyone here wanting 'ascii' mode, doesn't mean truly ascii (char range 0 - 127) but extended ascii which gives a lot of cross platform and codepage problems for the characters within the extended ascii range (128 - 255).
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Re: PureBasic 5.50 beta 1 is out
I expected that answer, but that's just because you wanted to support ascii too.
That's why i said "even if you could just ignore its presence and use unicode only" exactly as it is now (but without a choice).
Anyway, ok, that answer my question, basically it's because now it's officially less work and no one can ask you "can you support ascii too?" anymore.
Thanks.
That's why i said "even if you could just ignore its presence and use unicode only" exactly as it is now (but without a choice).
Anyway, ok, that answer my question, basically it's because now it's officially less work and no one can ask you "can you support ascii too?" anymore.
Thanks.
Re: PureBasic 5.50 beta 1 is out
Yes, that's true. I don't have to do that.DontTalkToMe wrote:I expected that answer, but that's just because you wanted to support ascii too.
But Freds decision has nothing to do with what I like or not. It's just that I understand his decision and see the advantages of it.
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Re: PureBasic 5.50 beta 1 is out
Thank you PureBasic Team for this great product, the recent release, and your continuous development work.
Even if it had not paid for itself 100 times over, I am a better programmer thanks to the patience and contributions of many forum members who enjoy using PureBasic as much as I do.
Even if it had not paid for itself 100 times over, I am a better programmer thanks to the patience and contributions of many forum members who enjoy using PureBasic as much as I do.
Re: PureBasic 5.50 beta 1 is out
Exactly!Thank you PureBasic Team for this great product, the recent release, and your continuous development work.
Even if it had not paid for itself 100 times over, I am a better programmer thanks to the patience and contributions of many forum members who enjoy using PureBasic as much as I do.
Thanks for sharing
Re: PureBasic 5.50 beta 1 is out
I think It is already not BASIC for years. It's rather C with BASIC syntax and extended STL ^^Lord wrote: PureBasic: Rest in peace. You are not BASIC anymore.
Or something like Delphi (with some C stuff also and BASIC syntax).
I don't see problem for it to be unicode-only, ASCII really is abandoned (except microcontrollers :3 but PB doesn't compile to them anyway) and it makes no sense to write pure ASCII-programs for now, even for Windows XP, unless something forces to work with ASCII, but there are many ways to deal with such cases wasting minimum efforts. Executable size of course increases, but man, strings are very minor factor of bloating, bad linker matters much more in this, for example. It is rare case for you to hardcode 500kb (250kb) of strings into exe, but PB linker easily can attach such ammount of trash and unused libraries parts.
So anyway there are many much more important things to be fixed/changed/added than string format-related.
"W̷i̷s̷h̷i̷n̷g o̷n a s̷t̷a̷r"
Re: PureBasic 5.50 beta 1 is out
What i want is not a lot of new functions, i want stability and bugfixes for important things.
Is the base stable, for my, new functions are welcome.
Ascii is dead and down, it was before 30 years up to date.
Also in the future x86 is dead and down.
Programming in the future should be easier.
I think this is simple...
Is Unicode programming with PB difficult ?
No, it is simple
Are the compiled files bigger ?
A little, but absolutely not important
Running Unicode compiled files slower ?
Only you use very time sensible string operations, a little, not more
But here is important, stupid programming make software slow, not using Unicode ...
Is the base stable, for my, new functions are welcome.
Ascii is dead and down, it was before 30 years up to date.
Also in the future x86 is dead and down.
Programming in the future should be easier.
I think this is simple...
Is Unicode programming with PB difficult ?
No, it is simple
Are the compiled files bigger ?
A little, but absolutely not important
Running Unicode compiled files slower ?
Only you use very time sensible string operations, a little, not more
But here is important, stupid programming make software slow, not using Unicode ...
Last edited by walbus on Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: PureBasic 5.50 beta 1 is out
Thanx a lot Fred and team. Vehicle lib is very interesting. Cheers!
Proud supporter of PB! * Musician * C64/6502 Freak
Re: PureBasic 5.50 beta 1 is out
Doc on line hereoreopa wrote:Thanx a lot Fred and team. Vehicle lib is very interesting. Cheers!
http://herved25.free.fr/Doc/vehicle/index.html
Please correct my english
http://purebasic.developpez.com/
http://purebasic.developpez.com/