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 Post subject: Re: Support for Ascii compilation ends after the next LTS cy
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:27 pm 
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Lebostein wrote:
What reason is there to provide the commands for ONE of many 3D engines?


It's integrated in PB and people doesn't need to learn anything new to use it beyond the PB commands associated with it.

To use OGRE or any other engine you have to create at least a 1:1 wrapper to if you are lucky or convert it from OOP to a flat API and maintain it, not something everyone can or like to do.

Moreover being the "official" engine people can easily exchange code for it.

I don't use it, probably I'll never use it (never say never) so I don't care for its presence but I don't expect it to go away and I'm moderately happy for the people having fun with it.

It's a gentle way to approach and experiment with a 3D engine.

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 Post subject: Re: Support for Ascii compilation ends after the next LTS cy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:39 am 
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Lebostein wrote:
In my opinion the 3D engine can be removed from PB! This means that less code has to be maintained.
What reason is there to provide the commands for ONE of many 3D engines?


The Ogre3D engine is extremely powerful and is very important for PB.
Without it, PB would become nothing more than another Basic variant.
My needs for PB would decrease considerably without it and I would have to find another language to serve my needs.

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 Post subject: Re: Support for Ascii compilation ends after the next LTS cy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:51 am 
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Quote:
What reason is there to provide the commands for ONE of many 3D engines?

for me the reason is that we want a function to plot a point in 3D space such as this Plot3D(x,y,z) necessary for plotting data, with this engine we have it in the form of MeshVertexPosition(x, y, z). if we said okay it could be done with GDI or other ways, i will say MeshVertexPosition(x, y, z) is a point which is part of a mesh so we can deal with the whole mesh (3D plot) easily like rotating the whole 3D plot, zooming etc. without causing the system to feel bad.
there are also other features.


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 Post subject: Re: Support for Ascii compilation ends after the next LTS cy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:26 am 
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Lebostein wrote:
In my opinion the 3D engine can be removed from PB! This means that less code has to be maintained.
What reason is there to provide the commands for ONE of many 3D engines?
I agree. 3D engine can be removed.
The fact that for games are very rarely use Ogre. Availability ASCII, much more important Ogre!
And it's common sense. In PB written a lot of programs, but how many games using Orge? 0.001% :!: :!:
Much more important is ASCII and support OOP.

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 Post subject: Re: Support for Ascii compilation ends after the next LTS cy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:42 am 
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User_Russian wrote:
Lebostein wrote:
In my opinion the 3D engine can be removed from PB! This means that less code has to be maintained.
What reason is there to provide the commands for ONE of many 3D engines?
I agree. 3D engine can be removed.
The fact that for games are very rarely use Ogre. Availability ASCII, much more important Ogre!
And it's common sense. In PB written a lot of programs, but how many games using Orge? 0.001% :!: :!:
Much more important is ASCII and support OOP.


What an odd thing to say. Thankfully it's only your oppinions and not the teams. :-)
Ogre3D is not only for games, but can be used for scientific studies too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaHezuEXHe8 <-game related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0zbOsCWsRY <-game related
http://www.ogre3d.org/tikiwiki/tiki-index.php?page=projects+using+ogre <- games + apps

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 Post subject: Re: Support for Ascii compilation ends after the next LTS cy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:01 am 
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DK_PETER wrote:
It's all created using PureBasic?
Give several famous projects PureBasic, using Ogre.
The team spending a lot of time to support the Ogre, which few people use. Removing Ogre lets you add a lot of other really useful things.

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 Post subject: Re: Support for Ascii compilation ends after the next LTS cy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:07 am 
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User_Russian wrote:
DK_PETER wrote:
It's all created using PureBasic?
Give several famous projects PureBasic, using Ogre.


Come on!!! The issue you were making was. Your words:
Quote:
"I agree. 3D engine can be removed. The fact that for games are very rarely use Ogre."

So I'm showing some of the power of the Ogre3D engine.
Only the last 18 months has shown some extraordinary additions to PB's ogre implementation. Games and scientific applications in Ogre3D
will never happen unless the team keeps on improving it.
I'm sorry, that you find the 3D part redundant, but I sompletely disagree with you on all accounts.

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 Post subject: Re: Support for Ascii compilation ends after the next LTS cy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:17 am 
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DK_PETER wrote:
So I'm showing some of the power of the Ogre3D engine.
You show such projects to PureBasic.
The reality is that it is not written in PureBasic is not a well-known game with Ogre. And if someone is planning to create a cool game to PureBasic, most likely choose another 3D engine (not Ogre).
Based on this we can conclude: Ogre is not needed in PureBasic and its support must be stopped.
I am opposed to such versions of PB, as 5.00, where all the modifications have been made only with the Ogre. This hinders the development of PureBasic and prevents the addition of a really useful features.
It is a pity that Fred and the team is not put to a vote to add new functions and capabilities in the next version. This would allow doing PureBasic, useful most communities.

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 Post subject: Re: Support for Ascii compilation ends after the next LTS cy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:44 am 
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User_Russian wrote:
DK_PETER wrote:
So I'm showing some of the power of the Ogre3D engine.
You show such projects to PureBasic.
The reality is that it is not written in PureBasic is not a well-known game with Ogre. And if someone is planning to create a cool game to PureBasic, most likely choose another 3D engine (not Ogre).
Based on this we can conclude: Ogre is not needed in PureBasic and its support must be stopped.
I am opposed to such versions of PB, as 5.00, where all the modifications have been made only with the Ogre. This hinders the development of PureBasic and prevents the addition of a really useful features.
It is a pity that Fred and the team is not put to a vote to add new functions and capabilities in the next version. This would allow doing PureBasic, useful most communities.



Okey dokey...
As I stated earlier: I completely disagree with you on all accounts. Discussion is hereby terminated.

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 Post subject: Re: Support for Ascii compilation ends after the next LTS cy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:00 am 
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if i can't see the projects in 3D section viewforum.php?f=36 are something then most likely i am from the FlatLand http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatland
our universe are 3D++ so the 3D engine are reflecting this fact and emulating it and it is a must.
for those who don't want to use the 3D engine functions or finding it difficult to use, i suggest that purebasic have a new Functions Plot3D(x,y,z,rgb(r,g,b)), also Line3D(...). when calling it it will open a new Ogre3D window special and ready to plot on it with the characteristic that what is plotted can be considered a whole object mesh ready to move/rotate/zoom/inspect etc. in this way we solve the problem of the users feels bad with the Ogre engine. and make it easy for the new users to benefit from the 3D engine in their science/math graphics without even knowing about the existence of the Ogre 3D engine which are the Genie behind all the stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Support for Ascii compilation ends after the next LTS cy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:09 am 
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Real projects on PureBasic can be found here. viewtopic.php?f=14&t=40265
How many of them are using Ogre? What percentage of these projects?

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 Post subject: Re: Support for Ascii compilation ends after the next LTS cy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:14 am 
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User_Russian wrote:
Real projects on PureBasic can be found here. viewtopic.php?f=14&t=40265
How many of them are using Ogre? What percentage of these projects?



As I stated earlier. Give folks and the team a chance.

EDIT: Furthermore - no everyone submits their creation to that website..

AndyLy is currently creating a game using Ogre3D here http://www.purebasic.fr/english/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=60182

And I've done a 4 hour work on a freeware game called Planetbuster. Whether it's cool or not is an entirely different question, but
the more love Ogre3D gets - the more people want to create something i 3D.

Screenshots:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/f02xtlgqag0yl ... uster1.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zf37m8n3k7sq7 ... uster2.jpg

And more is coming...

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 Post subject: Re: Support for Ascii compilation ends after the next LTS cy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:07 pm 
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User_Russian wrote:
[...] The team spending a lot of time to support the Ogre, which few people use. Removing Ogre lets you add a lot of other really useful things.
That's not true. I might be wrong in some degree but as far as I know Fred and Freak are not really involved in that. There are at least two forum members who take care of the 3D part.
Also, as Ogre in PureBasic is getting better and better lately, more people start to use it. Currently I don't plan doing anything with 3D but I really like having it at hand -- or as luis said in his previous post: "It's a gentle way to approach and experiment with a 3D engine."

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 Post subject: Re: Support for Ascii compilation ends after the next LTS cy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:11 pm 
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There is absolutely no plan to drop the 3D engine which is an intregral part of PB, so this whole discussion is moot.


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 Post subject: Re: Support for Ascii compilation ends after the next LTS cy
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:36 pm 
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The 3D capability has more use than 'just' games. It is good for engineering and scientific work too. Ogre is growing, PB is growing - it's all good.

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