Emphasize Donations Support via a Donations-Toll Banner

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Tristano
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Emphasize Donations Support via a Donations-Toll Banner

Post by Tristano »

I really love PureBASIC. And I think that it comes with a very reasonable license fee (pay once, update forever).

In the (logged in) users’ download page there is paragraph:
Since updates are free, those who want to support the further PureBasic development can do it here. Thank you !
I totally agree with this because I realize the hard work that goes into maintaining and evolving PureBASIC — which has been a solid and steadily growing language since 1998. I can only guess how time-consuming it must be to maintain a cross-platform language in time, especially since computing standards are evolving faster and faster — and I’d like to express my admiration for the constancy of PB’s devs for this.

But I think that donation-support should be give more visibility. Open source software often have a banner in the homepage and a whole page dedicated to the inflow of users donations.

It’s clear to me that a loving community of affictionados has grown around PureBASIC, and this very Forum — and the various websites dedicated to the language, as well as the moltitude of projects found around the web — are a testimony to this.

User participation is a very important aspect of any product, but especially so when it comes to programming languages: it stimulates other users to take an active role, and it’s a motivating factor when embarking in tasks that require long term dedication. There is a “viral” aspect to it, it’s just natural that envolment with others breeds more participation.

With all that supporting PureBASIC via donations is totally optional, I still think that it shouldn’t be something that happens “in the corner of the website”. I think that a banner with the (anonymous) donations toll should be well visible in the Forum — to both thank users who donated as well as to remind all users that supporting economically PureBASIC development is part of the community’s envolvement.

It’s easy to forget the separation line between contributing to the language by writing code and libraries (which are an important part of the language richness) and the economic support that helps maintainance of the language itself. In times were the scale of expectations is distorted by accustomization to videogames which have been devloped by teams of thousands of programmers, it’s even easier to forget that PureBASIC is maintained by a small team of dedicated people.

PureBASIC enjoys a users community which has nothing to envy to open source projects communities — it has the same spirit and dedication. As far as I see it, the PureBASIC license fee is almost nominal: you get a lifetime updates for a cross platform language, a full IDE with debugging tools, documentation in three locales, an SDK, and forums in different languages. What more can you ask?

Well … apprarently a lot. After all it seems that the more we love this language, the more we are making feature requests. It’s natural: we love it and we always want more of it, more from it, and better of it. And it’s so easy to forget that cross-platform bugs-fixing, and implementing, testing and maintaining features is a time consuming task.

Of course, I’m not proposing we stop asking for more from PureBASIC (or complaining when this or that feature isn’t the way we want it to be) — we can’t do that, we love it and we want more of/from it. So it will never happen. I instead propose we start giving more (of course, just in order to ask even more! ;-) )

This why I’m proposing that support donations may be given more visibility, and a donations-toll banner be created as incentive and a reminder. I also believe that a donations toll is good for transparency, apart from breaking the idea that coding support is a “community thing” whilst economic support is a “private thing” — they are both faces of the same coin, you can’t really have one without the other.

For some reasons, the latter of these two aspects has been given less visiblity that then the former. It’s not as if I was proposing something completely new, the invitation to donations has always been there, just not strongly emphasized.

I’d like to know what the community thinks on the issue — after all we’re speaking about community support.
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Re: Emphasize Donations Support via a Donations-Toll Banner

Post by Tristano »

EDIT: --- sorry, the reply below wasn't meant for this thread (it belonged here) but I accidentally posted it here.

I've published a JSON file with all the PureBASIC commands from v5.00 to 5.60:

https://github.com/tajmone/purebasic-ar ... mands.json

Like the previous one, it starts by adding all tokens from 5.50, and with the following releases it just adds new ones and deletes old ones.

Keep in mind that PureBASIC 5.54 is missing from the "museum" donwload page --- so I only had the changelog for that version.

If the Commands Index page correctly represents the actual built in commands, then the JSON file is a valid reference for building syntax files for both code beautifiers and editors.
Last edited by Tristano on Thu May 04, 2017 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Emphasize Donations Support via a Donations-Toll Banner

Post by Seymour Clufley »

FWIW, I completely agree that Fred & co. should do more to encourage users to donate. What worries me, from a selfish perspective, is that they won't make enough money, and eventually they will tire of working on PB and just give it up. Less selfishly, I also simply don't like people working incredibly hard on a project and not getting the money they deserve for doing so.
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Re: Emphasize Donations Support via a Donations-Toll Banner

Post by Tristano »

Opsss, I just realized that I hadposted here the JSON announcement, which belonged to another thread. Mea culpa --- I often get distracted by trying to be multitasking.
Seymour Clufley wrote:FWIW, I completely agree that Fred & co. should do more to encourage users to donate. What worries me, from a selfish perspective, is that they won't make enough money, and eventually they will tire of working on PB and just give it up. Less selfishly, I also simply don't like people working incredibly hard on a project and not getting the money they deserve for doing so.
Hopefully this won't happen. I'm confident that there is a good number of affictionate users willing to support. I think the issue needs only to be emphasized more.

Also, there could other strategies for funds raising other than direct donations --- from collectibles to stickers and T-Shirts. But I think the central question has to do with users awareness right now. The Internet makes the world a small place: a website is a website, and commercial software is a commercial software --- it's easy to forget the difference between a large corporation website and product, and a project run with love by a small team of dedicated people.

But obviously the last word on this is with Fantaise software. What I think is that having the donation request as just a plain paragraph in the download section doesn't emphasize the question at all; so if its worth mentioning it than it should be done in a louder way.

I'd really like to read users opinions on this, after all maintainance and development of PB is a topic at heart for all us.
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Re: Emphasize Donations Support via a Donations-Toll Banner

Post by fryquez »

I don't see much sense in donating. I mean what will it change?
Main problem is that PureBASIC has only 1 main developer and a few helpers.
Looking back a few years, I hardly see a the language growing.
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Re: Emphasize Donations Support via a Donations-Toll Banner

Post by Seymour Clufley »

fryquez wrote:I don't see much sense in donating. I mean what will it change?
Main problem is that PureBASIC has only 1 main developer and a few helpers.
Looking back a few years, I hardly see a the language growing.
Donate, and they can afford to hire new developers.
JACK WEBB: "Coding in C is like sculpting a statue using only sandpaper. You can do it, but the result wouldn't be any better. So why bother? Just use the right tools and get the job done."
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Re: Emphasize Donations Support via a Donations-Toll Banner

Post by Tristano »

Hi @fryquez.
fryquez wrote:I don't see much sense in donating. I mean what will it change?
Main problem is that PureBASIC has only 1 main developer and a few helpers.
Looking back a few years, I hardly see a the language growing.
I agree with @Seymour: donations could justify calling for more developrs.
Maybe it's not really all about money that is at stake, it has to do with measuring user support also.

I wrote the post because I realized that I often post bug reports, ask for new features, etc --- all this is a constructive way, no matter if there is an element of criticism in a bug report. But then I also asked myself if donating wasn't appropriate when expectations are high.

And I'm glad your gave voice to your view, because I think it's a good chance to speak about an issue on which many of us might have different views --- after all we are speaking of a totally voluntary act: donation.

As far as I remember, the introduction of Win 10 has brought many changes in PureBASIC -- maybe not so many new visible features, but I'm sure it required work of maintainance. Also MacOs has undergone some major updates lately.

Anyhow, I can't avoid noticing that Fantaise's new SpiderBASIC has a different licensing fee than PureBASIC: a licese covers for a year of updates. I take this as an indication that experience has taught that more money inflow can grant a better product growth --- but I might be wrong on this, of course.

I also can't avoid thinking that all the years that have gone into developing PureBASIC denote a dedication that proves also passion for it. I can also immagine that if a huge ammount of donations were to flow in, there is no reason to think that PureBASIC developement wouldn't receive a boost --- if not just because it proves that its users are passionate about it, then because money can grant buying the right time to spend on any project.

On the other hand, we shouldn't forget that the language growth could also be aided by donations and outsourcing --- eg: some people might like to see a wrapper written for certain C libraries, but maybe they can't do it themselves. If enough people get together, they can outsource a task to some expert user with a donation, on the condition that the final code is open source and with a non restrictive license. This would help the growth of the language, although indirectly.
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