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 Post subject: Re: Nice Approach To Pirating
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:09 pm 
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Well for me it is obvious that piracy is one of human-factor driven things. That means it is generally "invulnerable", like a prostitution, drug/alcohol addictions, corruption and some others. It's simplest "Demand-Offer" principle, while there is someone who wants something, there will be someone to bring it. In total anything what comes from human, can be easily broken with other human ^_^

For last time I'm thinking more about positive effects of piracy. It makes your soft much more popular (torrents surely are a kind of free and very effective advertisement), chances are nice that pirate will become official users in long-term perspective, etc. All this is better than if they cannot/wish not to pay for soft, while also unable to pirate it, and as result -- are forced to use concurrent soft and forget about you completely (of course those words applicable depending on soft category, such things as games showing other regularities, for example).
Should not forget also that originally piracy was not driven by money -- it was driven by hate to a stupid (pff, say me that it is not stupid to sit and count billions of bucks which you "would have received, but..") and greedy developers (btw it is about 90% of them, if take non-opensource/commercial soft), as well as hackers often are hacking protections mostly for fun/some fame and just to kick an ass of protection authors. The commercial groups were not accepted by "underground" (it also PARTIALLY remains now).

In typical case for developers the perfect variant is somewhere between 2 stupid variants:
1) fighting piracy hard, which often annoys all users and makes lot of problems for them
2) doing nothing against it/leaving pirate life so easy as is it life of official user

Don't know why I'm writing it btw (maybe because having nothing to do now^^), as for me such conclusions are anyway obvious for anyone who has some experience and thoughts.
Saying more generally: the one real solution of "invulnerable" problems is to legalize and bring some control over them

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 Post subject: Re: Nice Approach To Pirating
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:56 pm 
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Lunasole wrote:
Well for me it is obvious that piracy is one of human-factor driven things. That means it is generally "invulnerable", like a prostitution, drug/alcohol addictions, corruption and some others. It's simplest "Demand-Offer" principle, while there is someone who wants something, there will be someone to bring it. In total anything what comes from human, can be easily broken with other human ^_^

For last time I'm thinking more about positive effects of piracy. It makes your soft much more popular (torrents surely are a kind of free and very effective advertisement), chances are nice that pirate will become official users in long-term perspective, etc. All this is better than if they cannot/wish not to pay for soft, while also unable to pirate it, and as result -- are forced to use concurrent soft and forget about you completely (of course those words applicable depending on soft category, such things as games showing other regularities, for example).
Should not forget also that originally piracy was not driven by money -- it was driven by hate to a stupid (pff, say me that it is not stupid to sit and count billions of bucks which you "would have received, but..") and greedy developers (btw it is about 90% of them, if take non-opensource/commercial soft), as well as hackers often are hacking protections mostly for fun/some fame and just to kick an ass of protection authors. The commercial groups were not accepted by "underground" (it also PARTIALLY remains now).

In typical case for developers the perfect variant is somewhere between 2 stupid variants:
1) fighting piracy hard, which often annoys all users and makes lot of problems for them
2) doing nothing against it/leaving pirate life so easy as is it life of official user

Don't know why I'm writing it btw (maybe because having nothing to do now^^), as for me such conclusions are anyway obvious for anyone who has some experience and thoughts.
Saying more generally: the one real solution of "invulnerable" problems is to legalize and bring some control over them


PureBASIC has a perfectly working DRM given current technology.. It's cheaper than a protector license too(which is around $100/yr for ones you can actually buy that are okay like Oreans protectors).

On the subject of social-economics and time-travel: When security is really good, like when buffer overflows are gone and protectors work, the ones who control licenses not only control what you use, but who gets what level of automation and productivity. This could be used to sandbox communities and entire countries in to a finance class(and since currency really does control us:poverty class). By then technology will be so hard breaking out of that will be a feat like winning a millennium prize. It'll be introduced by a sudden event that introduces basically what you see in cyberpunk movies and you'll realize it as it happens.. A.I. and algorithms will kill Linux type edge cases too. Like you see kind of with Nividia drivers and Adobe raster algorithms in relation to Linux support and OSS right now; but higher contrast.
Enjoy piracy and fortune five-hundreds and governments being nervous about zero-days while you can.. We're building our own prison.

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 Post subject: Re: Nice Approach To Pirating
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:31 am 
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Doing nothing is not a good idea, in mu experience.
When you fight piracy your sales grows.
You just try to be as smartest as possible.
If you concentrate on make that the regular user find hard to use pirated versions of your software, you will win. Because is the average usert matters, the hackers does not count.

How to achieve that? Per example, releasing new versions often, making that pirated version are ourdated and key generator obsolet.
Or making that some part of the job need to be done on your server, they will not be able to bypass it.
There are a lot of possible ideas.

IMHO, fighting pirates = more sales.


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 Post subject: Re: Nice Approach To Pirating
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:35 am 
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tj1010 wrote:
On the subject of social-economics and time-travel: When security is really good, like when buffer overflows are gone and protectors work, the ones who control licenses not only control what you use, but who gets what level of automation and productivity. This could be used to sandbox communities and entire countries in to a finance class(and since currency really does control us:poverty class). By then technology will be so hard breaking out of that will be a feat like winning a millennium prize. It'll be introduced by a sudden event that introduces basically what you see in cyberpunk movies and you'll realize it as it happens.. A.I. and algorithms will kill Linux type edge cases too. Like you see kind of with Nividia drivers and Adobe raster algorithms in relation to Linux support and OSS right now; but higher contrast.
Enjoy piracy and fortune five-hundreds and governments being nervous about zero-days while you can.. We're building our own prison.


Well security is also one of those things fully depending on human-factor [for example, what is the point of top-measures, if there will be some Snowden... and he surely will be, it's impossible to predict behavior of every ppl involved, because humans are changing and you today is not you tomorrow], so I don't think it can be really good and there ever will be something in world which works so much secure as planned by no matter who ^^
Even any most powerful A.I. you can imagine, will be hackable by "those annoying human insects" (hi, SHODAN :3) , if only this will not be a planetary scale AI, which controls EVERYTHING, including total physical control over all humans. And even then the things easily will go as in "Matrix" movie scenario and security will be broken.

It's just clear that anything going on in that "prison building" direction only leads to a methods evolution, classical never-ending arms race which longs over all humans history, when some monkey jumped out from the tree and picked up a stick to beat other monkey ^_^

So as for me should not be afraid of such scenarios, for things bothering large groups of ppl that Newton's law ("to every action there is an equal reaction opposed") works so fine as it works in physics.

Btw control based on currency anyway is impossible, for it only works model with "rich vs average class", while "rich vs poverty" always followed by revolution/resistance.
As a "checkmate" ppl always can just stop using digital technologies at all, if they will become so unbearable

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Last edited by Lunasole on Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:09 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Nice Approach To Pirating
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:06 am 
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I didn't mean to get everybody so stirred up.
I enjoyed reading the original thread and kind
of went off topic asking why the ratio of guests
to registered users was so high.

I was trying to find out if the PureBasic sales
paradigm was working or not.

You are actually getting back to the original thread
topic, which is fine with me. Just don't hurt each
other.


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 Post subject: Re: Nice Approach To Pirating
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:02 pm 
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Lunasole wrote:
tj1010 wrote:
On the subject of social-economics and time-travel: When security is really good, like when buffer overflows are gone and protectors work, the ones who control licenses not only control what you use, but who gets what level of automation and productivity. This could be used to sandbox communities and entire countries in to a finance class(and since currency really does control us:poverty class). By then technology will be so hard breaking out of that will be a feat like winning a millennium prize. It'll be introduced by a sudden event that introduces basically what you see in cyberpunk movies and you'll realize it as it happens.. A.I. and algorithms will kill Linux type edge cases too. Like you see kind of with Nividia drivers and Adobe raster algorithms in relation to Linux support and OSS right now; but higher contrast.
Enjoy piracy and fortune five-hundreds and governments being nervous about zero-days while you can.. We're building our own prison.


Well security is also one of those things fully depending on human-factor [for example, what is the point of top-measures, if there will be some Snowden... and he surely will be, it's impossible to predict behavior of every ppl involved, because humans are changing and you today is not you tomorrow], so I don't think it can be really good and there ever will be something in world which works so much secure as planned by no matter who ^^
Even any most powerful A.I. you can imagine, will be hackable by "those annoying human insects" (hi, SHODAN :3) , if only this will not be a planetary scale AI, which controls EVERYTHING, including total physical control over all humans. And even then the things easily will go as in "Matrix" movie scenario and security will be broken.

It's just clear that anything going on in that "prison building" direction only leads to a methods evolution, classical never-ending arms race which longs over all humans history, when some monkey jumped out from the tree and picked up a stick to beat other monkey ^_^

So as for me should not be afraid of such scenarios, for things bothering large groups of ppl that Newton's law ("to every action there is an equal reaction opposed") works so fine as it works in physics.

Btw control based on currency anyway is impossible, for it only works model with "rich vs average class", while "rich vs poverty" always followed by revolution/resistance.
As a "checkmate" ppl always can just stop using digital technologies at all, if they will become so unbearable


I wasn't aware Snowden caused change in the US government. Besides stricter policies towards contractors.

The projects he leaked weren't even current. People were even persuaded to be mad that Hillary Clinton was hacked instead of that she was orchestrating drone strikes and destabilization in the Middle East. It's even documented the CIA has their own Mexico drug cartel and assist with weapons and drug imports and people don't care..

EDIT: In near future x86 will have what phones and game consoles have in the form of Intel SGX. https://www.blackhat.com/docs/us-16/mat ... Review.pdf

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