If by clarify, you mean affirm and corroborate my position on the open source model, then yes; it surely does.the.weavster wrote:Perhaps this quote from GNU will help clarify the situation for you...
Authoritative Viewpoints on OOP
Re: Authoritative Viewpoints on OOP
Texas Instruments TI-99/4A Home Computer: the first home computer with a 16bit processor, crammed into an 8bit architecture. Great hardware - Poor design - Wonderful BASIC engine. And it could talk too! Please visit my YouTube Channel
Re: Authoritative Viewpoints on OOP
Love it how much people can interpret into two words.
Open means it's open. Source means it's the source. It's the most easy wording but people interprete the world into it.
From the eula of Space Engineers:
Not in the meaning of the words. ^^
Open means it's open. Source means it's the source. It's the most easy wording but people interprete the world into it.
From the eula of Space Engineers:
open source in a free-software activist understandingThe source code and art assets must not to be mistaken for free software, an open source in a free-software activist understanding, copy-left or public domain software.
Not in the meaning of the words. ^^
Re: Authoritative Viewpoints on OOP
Next you'll be telling us that zero-day means no day! It doesn't quite work that way with valid and established terminologies. And the term open source is one of them.Thorium wrote:Love it how much people can interpret into two words.
Open means it's open. Source means it's the source. It's the most easy wording but people interprete the world into it.
Cambridge Dictionary wrote:Open-source software is free to use, and the original program can be changed by anyone.
Merriam-Webster Dictionary wrote:having the source code freely available for possible modification and redistribution.
Moreover, I don't see why there's even a debate anymore when Marek Rosa himself had clearly and unambiguously stated that the release model of Space Engineers is not to be confused with open source. (link to his blog article)
He should know.
Texas Instruments TI-99/4A Home Computer: the first home computer with a 16bit processor, crammed into an 8bit architecture. Great hardware - Poor design - Wonderful BASIC engine. And it could talk too! Please visit my YouTube Channel
- the.weavster
- Addict
- Posts: 1537
- Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 6:53 pm
- Location: England
Re: Authoritative Viewpoints on OOP
You forgot this one:
Urban Dictionary wrote:The stuff that makes Bill Gates' life sad.
Re: Authoritative Viewpoints on OOP
That's a funny one. And here's a disheartening one:the.weavster wrote:You forgot this one:Urban Dictionary wrote:The stuff that makes Bill Gates' life sad.
Danilo, take note.
Texas Instruments TI-99/4A Home Computer: the first home computer with a 16bit processor, crammed into an 8bit architecture. Great hardware - Poor design - Wonderful BASIC engine. And it could talk too! Please visit my YouTube Channel
Re: Authoritative Viewpoints on OOP
Sometimes it just makes sense to start a new project instead just updating the old one.TI-994A wrote:And here's a disheartening one:Danilo, take note.
For example, if the changes in a programming language system are too big, to consider it still the same,
or if greater incompatibilities/changes are required (see PB -> SB; VB6 -> VB.net; BlitzBasic -> Blitz3D -> BlitzMax -> MonkeyX -> MonkeyX2; etc).
Or there are other, better projects/libs, and some others become obsolete (because nobody uses it anymore).
Anyway, I don't want to discuss this forever. I just use what I want and like, and 15 years later,
this may be different stuff again. I can't use the same for 50 years because there is so many interesting stuff.
The world is always changing, there is always new stuff coming, and I learn new things all the time.
So one's own thinking and requirements/needs/want-to-haves also change over the years. Nothing special.
I'm also aware that almost all people come to an age where they don't want many changes anymore and don't want/need
the latest stuff - but at the age of 20/30/40 this shouldn't be the case. I imagine that things possibly may slow down
a little bit after 50/60/70/80, and I think it may just be stages/episodes/phases of development and life.
Re: Authoritative Viewpoints on OOP
Why so serious, Danilo? Just having some fun, yanking your chain. It's only Urban Dictionary, and their definitions shouldn't be taken seriously.Danilo wrote:Sometimes it just makes sense to start a new project instead just updating the old one. For example, if the changes in a programming language system are too big, to consider it still the same, or if greater incompatibilities/changes are required (see PB -> SB; VB6 -> VB.net; BlitzBasic -> Blitz3D -> BlitzMax -> MonkeyX -> MonkeyX2; etc). Or there are other, better projects/libs, and some others become obsolete (because nobody uses it anymore).
But still, when have you known me to leave a good argument alone.
While VB6 to VB.Net may be an apt example of a progressive product upgrade, shifting from the conventional API model to the .Net framework, the same does not hold true for the others.
SpiderBasic is an entirely different product, compiling to a whole new platform, and its command set is only a subset of PureBasic's. If anything, it is a fork of an actively developed, bigger project. Nothing abandoned here.
In the case of BRL, there was absolutely no reason for the release of each progressive product, beside$ the obviou$ commercial factor. IMHO, the original BlitzBasic could have simply been upgraded to accommodate more features and platforms, instead of introducing new products every few years. Of course, these upgrades required a whole new purchase, and this model eventually resulted in the total abandonment of the earlier products (or as BRL likes to call it, open source!). The trend continues today with the announcement of the upcoming MX2, which would effectively displace MX1. Buyer beware!
These contrast greatly with PureBasic. For over fifteen years, the PureBasic Team has progressively improved its product, adding features and platforms year after year, without missing a single beat, or charging an extra cent.
That's commitment! Thank you, Team PB.
BTW, C turns 43 this year, still maintaining its position as one of the most popular languages.Danilo wrote: I can't use the same for 50 years because there is so many interesting stuff.
Texas Instruments TI-99/4A Home Computer: the first home computer with a 16bit processor, crammed into an 8bit architecture. Great hardware - Poor design - Wonderful BASIC engine. And it could talk too! Please visit my YouTube Channel
Re: Authoritative Viewpoints on OOP
Well, personally I can see progress in BRL products. Procedural, adding OOP and enhancing it with every product, more and more targets
every time, including mobile and web. Opening it more every time: Closed source -> Include all lib sources with the payed product -> Making the
compiler open source, incl. libs for some targets / pay for additional targets, and get the rest of the sources with it -> full open source project,
founded by the community. Progress, how I like it.
See also: MX2 progress report:
Like me, users there like OOP (it's not even an question there ) and many (incl. the developer) are interested in different programming languages in general.
Direct contact with the developer, who is open-minded to suggestions, and feature requests! (very important, IMO)
Releases often, bugs get fixed as soon as possible.
You don't like anything of that, i got it. Different opinions, world views, generations, whatever...
I wasn't even born 43 years ago, anyway. Each generation has it's own things, you know. Have a nice weekend!
PS: I have quite some things on the list to get me busy for the next months. Let's come to an end, and let's just agree to disagree.
Of course you have the final word(s), so make it the ultimate answer to everything in life. (your last final word wasn't that great)
every time, including mobile and web. Opening it more every time: Closed source -> Include all lib sources with the payed product -> Making the
compiler open source, incl. libs for some targets / pay for additional targets, and get the rest of the sources with it -> full open source project,
founded by the community. Progress, how I like it.
See also: MX2 progress report:
Different company, different developers, different style. More agile/dynamic in my opinion, more responding to new trends, platforms, technologies.Danilo wrote:Many developer's dreams becoming true... Desktop + Mobile + Web development using an advanced object-oriented,
non-brackets, and non-indention-depending, native, super-cross-platform language. Everything in one open-source package -> w0w!
Like me, users there like OOP (it's not even an question there ) and many (incl. the developer) are interested in different programming languages in general.
Direct contact with the developer, who is open-minded to suggestions, and feature requests! (very important, IMO)
Releases often, bugs get fixed as soon as possible.
You don't like anything of that, i got it. Different opinions, world views, generations, whatever...
A few more interesting languages were developed within the last 43 years, and the younger generation prefers the new stuff, in my world.TI-994A wrote:BTW, C turns 43 this year, still maintaining its position as one of the most popular languages.Danilo wrote: I can't use the same for 50 years because there is so many interesting stuff.
I wasn't even born 43 years ago, anyway. Each generation has it's own things, you know. Have a nice weekend!
PS: I have quite some things on the list to get me busy for the next months. Let's come to an end, and let's just agree to disagree.
Of course you have the final word(s), so make it the ultimate answer to everything in life. (your last final word wasn't that great)
Re: Authoritative Viewpoints on OOP
And is this how you like it?Danilo wrote:Well, personally I can see progress in BRL products ... Progress, how I like it.
(monkey-x forum)
(monkey-x forum)Danilo wrote:Blitz2D ... abandoned.
Blitz3D ... abandoned.
Blitz3D SDK ... abandoned.
BlitzPlus ... abandoned.
BlitzMax ... abandoned.
Monkey X ... halted.
Always the same, and one of the main reasons BRL gets fewer customers for every new product.
Clearly, you seem to equate constant abandonment with progress.Danilo wrote:I am watching BRL products since I bought Blitz+ back in round about 2000. Only few weeks later came Blitz3D, and I decided to not pay again. Instead I got PureBasic ... It is one good example where a product does not get abandoned, instead it is enhanced and updated without an final "it is done" attitude.
Think about an up-to-date cross-platform Blitz3D ... It could still be the top thing for indies to make desktop games. It is not, because it was just stopped, in favor of something different. The new thing, BlitzMax, seems not to be that widespread, compared to Blitz3D back then. Again abandoned, in favor of something entirely new. As we see, the new thing, Monkey X, is even lesser widespread. Some of the problems (like the simple editor/IDE) are the same like 10 years ago.
Wow is right, because this product is still an unrealised dream.Danilo wrote:Many developer's dreams becoming true ... super-cross-platform language ... w0w!
Of course they were, but just being interesting is not a valid reason to switch to them. If your current development platform meets your requirements at par performance with the newer languages, a switch would simply be frivolous, not to mention counter-productive. Switching just to be trendy is silly.Danilo wrote:A few more interesting languages were developed within the last 43 years, and the younger generation prefers the new stuff...
Even the new generation programmers would tend to pick one and stick to it while it works.
I thought it was pretty good. I outed a real troll, shared a picture about it, and even had the last laugh.Danilo wrote:Of course you have the final word(s), so make it the ultimate answer to everything in life. (your last final word wasn't that great)
Just like I'm doing again here (the last laugh, I mean).
Texas Instruments TI-99/4A Home Computer: the first home computer with a 16bit processor, crammed into an 8bit architecture. Great hardware - Poor design - Wonderful BASIC engine. And it could talk too! Please visit my YouTube Channel
- the.weavster
- Addict
- Posts: 1537
- Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 6:53 pm
- Location: England
Re: Authoritative Viewpoints on OOP
No they wouldn't, try reading the thread again. It's horses for courses (and if you were a racehorse you'd have a 'b' after your name).TI-994A wrote:Even the new generation programmers would tend to pick one and stick to it while it works.
Re: Authoritative Viewpoints on OOP
(monkey-x forum)TI-994A wrote:In the case of BRL, there was absolutely no reason for the release of each progressive product, beside$ the obviou$ commercial factor. IMHO, the original BlitzBasic could have simply been upgraded to accommodate more features and platforms, instead of introducing new products every few years. Of course, these upgrades required a whole new purchase, and this model eventually resulted in the total abandonment of the earlier products (or as BRL likes to call it, open source!). The trend continues today with the announcement of the upcoming MX2, which would effectively displace MX1. Buyer beware!
Whoa! Aren't you guys saying the same thing???Danilo wrote:I am watching BRL products since I bought Blitz+ back in round about 2000. Only few weeks later came Blitz3D, and I decided to not pay again. Instead I got PureBasic ... It is one good example where a product does not get abandoned, instead it is enhanced and updated without an final "it is done" attitude.
Think about an up-to-date cross-platform Blitz3D ... It could still be the top thing for indies to make desktop games. It is not, because it was just stopped, in favor of something different. The new thing, BlitzMax, seems not to be that widespread, compared to Blitz3D back then. Again abandoned, in favor of something entirely new. As we see, the new thing, Monkey X, is even lesser widespread. Some of the problems (like the simple editor/IDE) are the same like 10 years ago.
Re: Authoritative Viewpoints on OOP
Of course it is, but not multiple horses for the same course. Intemperance breeds chaos.the.weavster wrote:It's horses for courses...
Try reading it in context:
TI-994A wrote:If your current development platform meets your requirements at par performance with the newer languages, a switch would simply be frivolous, not to mention counter-productive. Switching just to be trendy is silly.
Even the new generation programmers would tend to pick one and stick to it while it works.
Hard to say with quicksilver; too capricious.coder14 wrote:TI-994A wrote:IMHO, the original BlitzBasic could have simply been upgraded to accommodate more features and platforms, instead of introducing new products every few years.Aren't you guys saying the same thing?Danilo wrote:Think about an up-to-date cross-platform Blitz3D ... It could still be the top thing for indies to make desktop games. It is not, because it was just stopped, in favor of something different.
Texas Instruments TI-99/4A Home Computer: the first home computer with a 16bit processor, crammed into an 8bit architecture. Great hardware - Poor design - Wonderful BASIC engine. And it could talk too! Please visit my YouTube Channel
Re: Authoritative Viewpoints on OOP
So how do you call it then?TI-994A wrote:Next you'll be telling us that zero-day means no day! It doesn't quite work that way with valid and established terminologies. And the term open source is one of them.Thorium wrote:Love it how much people can interpret into two words.
Open means it's open. Source means it's the source. It's the most easy wording but people interprete the world into it.
Cambridge Dictionary wrote:Open-source software is free to use, and the original program can be changed by anyone.Merriam-Webster Dictionary wrote:having the source code freely available for possible modification and redistribution.Moreover, I don't see why there's even a debate anymore when Marek Rosa himself had clearly and unambiguously stated that the release model of Space Engineers is not to be confused with open source. (link to his blog article)
He should know.
Closed Source with opened source?
Makes no sense at all. The Dictionary is wrong about open source always being free. The real world is what forms terms and dictionaries just adopt them, they don't define them. If more projects like Space Engineers go open source, the dictionaries will change.
"open source in a free-software activist understanding" is what Marek meant and it's how it was been written in the EULA, you know that piece of text that is well thought out and not written down in a hurry like a blog post or tweet.
But i am tired to split hairs with you. So keep your definition, i keep mine.
Re: Authoritative Viewpoints on OOP
@Thorium:
For example, that people may change opinion over the years, when looking more deeply at
other programming languages and products. A bonehead remains to be a bonehead -
none of what you/we are saying will ever change that.
Just ignore him. This guy does not understand the simplest, obvious, things.Thorium wrote:But i am tired to split hairs with you. So keep your definition, i keep mine.
For example, that people may change opinion over the years, when looking more deeply at
other programming languages and products. A bonehead remains to be a bonehead -
none of what you/we are saying will ever change that.
Re: Authoritative Viewpoints on OOP
And you obviously don't live in the real world.Thorium wrote:The Dictionary is wrong about open source always being free. The real world is what forms terms and dictionaries just adopt them, they don't define them.
Simply charming. When exposed as a hypocrite, you cower behind opinion.Danilo wrote:...people may change opinion over the years, when looking more deeply at other programming languages and products. A bonehead remains to be a bonehead - none of what you/we are saying will ever change that.
They're not my definitions; they're the official ones. Yours, on the other hand, is simply your poor interpretation of those official terms.Thorium wrote:...i am tired to split hairs with you. So keep your definition, i keep mine.
There's no need to split hairs; just know what you're talking about.
Both of you.
Texas Instruments TI-99/4A Home Computer: the first home computer with a 16bit processor, crammed into an 8bit architecture. Great hardware - Poor design - Wonderful BASIC engine. And it could talk too! Please visit my YouTube Channel